pb908
Well-known
Luna pro sbc or lunapro F (both sbc, very sensitive, up to -3ev @iso100), the F have flash metering as well.
if you want something smaller with sbc, try super pilot sbc, but battery is 2x1.35V, need some tweak to use normal 1.5v battery.
Gossen pilot/2, build quality is good enough. Made of hard plastic, and thick. Can be adapted for hot shoe use, but sensitivity only up around ev6 or 7 @iso100.
for me, sbc meter is the best way, cheap enough and sensitive more than the sekonic offering.
if you want something smaller with sbc, try super pilot sbc, but battery is 2x1.35V, need some tweak to use normal 1.5v battery.
Gossen pilot/2, build quality is good enough. Made of hard plastic, and thick. Can be adapted for hot shoe use, but sensitivity only up around ev6 or 7 @iso100.
for me, sbc meter is the best way, cheap enough and sensitive more than the sekonic offering.
Ljós
Well-known
Tony, when I lost my Digisix (on a train, bummer) recently, I was confronted with either getting a new Digisix, or the Sekonic Twinmate. With the Twinmate, like you I was worried about a) flimsiness? and b) accuracy?
Why did I not run and just buy another Digisix?
It is very accurate, hard to kill (you drop it, it skips and laughs), smaller than the Twinmate, and handling is better than the Twinmate (Digisix: you can flip the dome from incident to reflected with the thumb easily.) Also the readout is instantaneous. (That is right, after a few weeks with the Digisix you have your aperture/shutter-settings in correspondence with EV internalized.)
But: for the money, it is not NICE. Tough, yeah. The scales are paint-on only and were not even painted crisply to begin with.
It shifts modes on you like nobody's business. Mine had BAD battery life. It will beep when it is inconvenient.
And you know what? It is still a great meter. But I could not get myself to buy another one (at the price it is going for), and the reason is: all these annoying quirks the Digisix has are design quirks that could easily and with little effort be fixed by the company with a minor redesign. In fact, the Digisix should never have hit the market with these flaws that are easily detectable in a short field test.
Now go read Dante Stellas review http://www.dantestella.com/technical/digisix.html
Spot on. Written in 2002. Nothing's changed.
Gossen would have a REAL winner if they just cared to fix these small but annoying quirks.
So I got myself the Twinmate. I am more careful with it than with my Digisix. I does not come across as flimsy to me, but I doubt it would take drops as well as the Digisix.
The Digisix is probably a bit more accurate. But: I think the Twinmate is more than good enough for black and white work.
You say you are shooting Tri-X with a vintage camera. I think the one-third-of-a-stop readouts of the Digisix are overkill in this situation.
Now that I have owned both, I would again go for the Twinmate.
But: the day Gossen updates the Digisix, I would be tempted to buy it.
All the best, Ljós
Why did I not run and just buy another Digisix?
It is very accurate, hard to kill (you drop it, it skips and laughs), smaller than the Twinmate, and handling is better than the Twinmate (Digisix: you can flip the dome from incident to reflected with the thumb easily.) Also the readout is instantaneous. (That is right, after a few weeks with the Digisix you have your aperture/shutter-settings in correspondence with EV internalized.)
But: for the money, it is not NICE. Tough, yeah. The scales are paint-on only and were not even painted crisply to begin with.
It shifts modes on you like nobody's business. Mine had BAD battery life. It will beep when it is inconvenient.
And you know what? It is still a great meter. But I could not get myself to buy another one (at the price it is going for), and the reason is: all these annoying quirks the Digisix has are design quirks that could easily and with little effort be fixed by the company with a minor redesign. In fact, the Digisix should never have hit the market with these flaws that are easily detectable in a short field test.
Now go read Dante Stellas review http://www.dantestella.com/technical/digisix.html
Spot on. Written in 2002. Nothing's changed.
Gossen would have a REAL winner if they just cared to fix these small but annoying quirks.
So I got myself the Twinmate. I am more careful with it than with my Digisix. I does not come across as flimsy to me, but I doubt it would take drops as well as the Digisix.
The Digisix is probably a bit more accurate. But: I think the Twinmate is more than good enough for black and white work.
You say you are shooting Tri-X with a vintage camera. I think the one-third-of-a-stop readouts of the Digisix are overkill in this situation.
Now that I have owned both, I would again go for the Twinmate.
But: the day Gossen updates the Digisix, I would be tempted to buy it.
All the best, Ljós
ZeissFan
Veteran
Good point. The real problem is that it just takes too long to determine the exposure because there are so many tiny numbers. I used one of these for about two years, by the way. Very accurate and very well made (before the plastic models). The needle mechanism (movement) is a bit too delicate, I thought.
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oftheherd
Veteran
I have and use a Gossen Luna Pro, Luna Pro SBC, and Sekonic L28c2. I don't know the difference between the L28c2 and the L28c, but I expect they are minimal.
The Luna Pro is smaller of the two Gossens I have, but must be tweaked for today's non-mercury batteries, or an adapter used. They aren't that big to me. They are good in low light, hence the name. They have a sliding dome for incident or reflective.
The Luna Pro SBC is probably half again as big, and takes 9 volt batteries. The SBC cell is better in lower light, and reacts quicker, no noticable memory switching from low to bright light. I prefer the Luna Pro SBC because of the SBC cell, and the zero dial.
I don't find either too big. Especially the Luna Pro, as if will fit in a jeans pocket, but both can also be worn around the neck with no problem.
Both are system meters, and have accessories. The SBC has more than the Luna Pro, but that isn't a concern from you posted question. Of course the SBC also has a sliding dome. I never felt as comfortable with either for incident light, but they are usable that way.
I prefer the L28c2 for incident light. Part of it may be the selenium cell (no battery), and prbably a big part is the big dome. It needs a high slide to be effective in bright light. Other slides are possible so you can choose a film speed, set the appropriate shutter speed, and read the f/stop off the dial.
It is good is surprisingly low light, but obviously not in the league with the Gossens. I don't recall the exact values, but I once used it in a pretty dim area, converting the readings to lux for choice of a cctv. It even surprised me.
I really like the Sekonic with MF and LF, but of course it can be used with 35mm or other formats. The L28c2 also can be used in the reflective mode, but I never felt comfortable using it that way. It can also be used for determining contrast ratios, but I never did.
The Luna Pro is smaller of the two Gossens I have, but must be tweaked for today's non-mercury batteries, or an adapter used. They aren't that big to me. They are good in low light, hence the name. They have a sliding dome for incident or reflective.
The Luna Pro SBC is probably half again as big, and takes 9 volt batteries. The SBC cell is better in lower light, and reacts quicker, no noticable memory switching from low to bright light. I prefer the Luna Pro SBC because of the SBC cell, and the zero dial.
I don't find either too big. Especially the Luna Pro, as if will fit in a jeans pocket, but both can also be worn around the neck with no problem.
Both are system meters, and have accessories. The SBC has more than the Luna Pro, but that isn't a concern from you posted question. Of course the SBC also has a sliding dome. I never felt as comfortable with either for incident light, but they are usable that way.
I prefer the L28c2 for incident light. Part of it may be the selenium cell (no battery), and prbably a big part is the big dome. It needs a high slide to be effective in bright light. Other slides are possible so you can choose a film speed, set the appropriate shutter speed, and read the f/stop off the dial.
It is good is surprisingly low light, but obviously not in the league with the Gossens. I don't recall the exact values, but I once used it in a pretty dim area, converting the readings to lux for choice of a cctv. It even surprised me.
I really like the Sekonic with MF and LF, but of course it can be used with 35mm or other formats. The L28c2 also can be used in the reflective mode, but I never felt comfortable using it that way. It can also be used for determining contrast ratios, but I never did.
Sparrow
Veteran
^ plus one for the L-28, I just have a label on it that lines up to f16 1/film-speed, so I can read it without faffing with all the dials
spartacus
Member
Thanks Ljos. You nicely summarized the general impression I have of the meter. It seems like a really nice beta product that was not properly sorted out for the market.
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spartacus
Member
If you wish for an accurate low light meter, I would not recommend the sekonic twinmate l-208. I traded in my copy, despite its size, because I couldn't trust it in all light conditions. That said, I liked the design of the l-208 a lot -- the simplicity of the numbers and their size especiallyThe gossen meters have been exposure dead eye dicks, very reliable despite their size. Shooting B+W film I take a few readings and tend to keep my large gossen in my bag. This is perfectly functional except when I want to shoot without a bag; in such cases I tend to grab the pocketable digisix.
I take it being a dead eye dick is a good thing.
I really like the design of the L-208, but it's at the top of my price range. If I am going to get a tiny pocket meter, I'll probably test my luck with a Gossen Pilot before the L-208. For a larger meter, I'm thinking about the Sekonic L-158/L-188, the latter being thinner and better in low light due to battery power. And for a meter at the upper end of my size limit, I like the design of the Gossen Luna Pro SBC/F/S.spartacus
Member
Does the Sekonic L-158/L-188 have a lock function so I can meter off my hand, lock in the reading and then adjust the settings? My palm is one stop brighter than midtone, so it works well for a makeshift incident reading with a reflective meter.
Sorry if this is an ignorant question regarding how you work with these meters. I have only used a digital Sekonic.
Sorry if this is an ignorant question regarding how you work with these meters. I have only used a digital Sekonic.
spartacus
Member
Thanks. If I get one it will be the SBC.
besk
Well-known
My digisix didn't have battery problems - it would just die on me. Went to Bogen twice with no help at all. Been sitting in a box for three years.
I use a VC II now and carry it in a flash shoe mounted on a nylon watch wrist band. Works great and is out of way when I don't need it.
I use a VC II now and carry it in a flash shoe mounted on a nylon watch wrist band. Works great and is out of way when I don't need it.
Landshark
Well-known
I've got the Gossen Digiflash and it's fine as a meter but I keep hitting the mode button all the time & have to cycle through the different modes to get back to EV.
I like the digital display with the analog calculator dial. It's very much the same as the original Luna Pro.
It does retain the digi display for 30-60 seconds so it gives you time to adjust the dial to the EV setting.
I like the digital display with the analog calculator dial. It's very much the same as the original Luna Pro.
It does retain the digi display for 30-60 seconds so it gives you time to adjust the dial to the EV setting.
David Charlwood
Established
Hand-held meters
Hand-held meters
Started off with a Weston Master V - thought I ought to upgrade so bought a Voigtlander VCII - this was often one-and-a-half stops in error - local dealer refused to become interested. VCII and dealer went in the dustbin. Next was the Sekonic 208 Twinmate - nice idea but gave peculiar readings intermittently. Lastly, tried the Sekonic 308S - MARVELLOUS - and takes an easily found battery - I shall stay with the 308S (and the Weston Master V). Hope this helps.
Hand-held meters
Started off with a Weston Master V - thought I ought to upgrade so bought a Voigtlander VCII - this was often one-and-a-half stops in error - local dealer refused to become interested. VCII and dealer went in the dustbin. Next was the Sekonic 208 Twinmate - nice idea but gave peculiar readings intermittently. Lastly, tried the Sekonic 308S - MARVELLOUS - and takes an easily found battery - I shall stay with the 308S (and the Weston Master V). Hope this helps.
cidereye
Film Freak
I have both the Sekonic L-208 and L-308s and find I almost always use the L-208 unless I want low light indoor readings where the 308 is obviously so much better.
The L-208 is small, so much easier to use in the field than a digital read out as you can see ALL your exposure options so much easier and choose the right combo in seconds. Tried mounting it on my M2 but it looks frankly ridiculous sat on top and I found I was quicker by using it hand held to boot.
The L-208 is small, so much easier to use in the field than a digital read out as you can see ALL your exposure options so much easier and choose the right combo in seconds. Tried mounting it on my M2 but it looks frankly ridiculous sat on top and I found I was quicker by using it hand held to boot.
spartacus
Member
Interesting. I haven't heard of anyone doing that before.
That's one of the things that turned me off of the meter.
Thanks David. That's quite an expensive loss. The 308 is really nice--small, light, accurate--but it's more than I want to spend right now on a second meter considering I already have an L-608 and prefer an analog display.
That's why I prefer the analog display too.
thegman
Veteran
I use the Sekonic Twinmate with my 'blad, I've got no issues with the accuracy of the meter, although I'm not one who care *too* much about perfect exposure. Having said that, I think it does read a perfect exposure.
My own quibble is that it pretty much stops metering when it gets very dark, so after 30 seconds, I'm guessing exposure really.
My own quibble is that it pretty much stops metering when it gets very dark, so after 30 seconds, I'm guessing exposure really.
xwhatsit
Well-known
Weston Master V is very well made, if a little large and heavy. As for the range of light brightness, it needs no accessories for bright light as you said in your first post; the only thing you must do, as mentioned in an earlier post, is swing a little door over the cell for "high sensitivity" vs "low sensitivity" range. It hasn't really bothered me too much, the scales overlap somewhat and you quickly learn by looking at the light which one you need.
Selenium meters, of course, aren't nearly as sensitive as modern meters, but it goes down to EV 4 pretty reliably. The scale goes lower but I don't really trust it, and the markings get pretty narrow on the meter. EV 4 is about all I need.
As for the earlier posted image and discussion about readability of the scale, the Weston Master V is more modern and has a significantly easier scale to read. Bigger text and use of inverted colours at full stops.
The only accessory needed is the invercone if you want to do incident metering. Mine just arrived (the meter didn't originally come with one). It's a fairly large thing, clips on. Haven't used it yet. Most things I've read seem to state that with it clipped on it becomes a very good incident meter, better than a lot of modern ones. The invercone is not a dome (it's, erm, an inverted cone), and is pretty large, perhaps that's the reason.
The best thing about it is the large meter (the needle readout itself); I use EV myself (as a precursor to try and do without a meter, trying to memorise EV values for a certain scene). You can hold the meter up, look at the needle, and if it reads 10, for example, then that corresponds to EV 11 at ISO 100 (i.e. LV 11). This makes it a fantastic direct-read meter if you like EV/LV.
You have to depress a button to release the needle, which means it seems to survive bumps etc. better than most analogue meters. You can twist the button in to lock it in, keeping the needle free at all times. Solid metal case, although heavy. Lovely high-quality leather case it fits in. British made, by Sangamo.
Selenium meters, of course, aren't nearly as sensitive as modern meters, but it goes down to EV 4 pretty reliably. The scale goes lower but I don't really trust it, and the markings get pretty narrow on the meter. EV 4 is about all I need.
As for the earlier posted image and discussion about readability of the scale, the Weston Master V is more modern and has a significantly easier scale to read. Bigger text and use of inverted colours at full stops.
The only accessory needed is the invercone if you want to do incident metering. Mine just arrived (the meter didn't originally come with one). It's a fairly large thing, clips on. Haven't used it yet. Most things I've read seem to state that with it clipped on it becomes a very good incident meter, better than a lot of modern ones. The invercone is not a dome (it's, erm, an inverted cone
), and is pretty large, perhaps that's the reason.The best thing about it is the large meter (the needle readout itself); I use EV myself (as a precursor to try and do without a meter, trying to memorise EV values for a certain scene). You can hold the meter up, look at the needle, and if it reads 10, for example, then that corresponds to EV 11 at ISO 100 (i.e. LV 11). This makes it a fantastic direct-read meter if you like EV/LV.
You have to depress a button to release the needle, which means it seems to survive bumps etc. better than most analogue meters. You can twist the button in to lock it in, keeping the needle free at all times. Solid metal case, although heavy. Lovely high-quality leather case it fits in. British made, by Sangamo.
spartacus
Member
Fortunately I will not need the meter for such low light.
Weston Master V...goes down to EV 4 pretty reliably...and has a significantly easier scale to read...
The only accessory needed is the invercone if you want to do incident metering. Mine just arrived (the meter didn't originally come with one). It's a fairly large thing, clips on. Haven't used it yet. Most things I've read seem to state that with it clipped on it becomes a very good incident meter, better than a lot of modern ones. The invercone is not a dome (it's, erm, an inverted cone
The best thing about it is the large meter (the needle readout itself); I use EV myself (as a precursor to try and do without a meter, trying to memorise EV values for a certain scene). You can hold the meter up, look at the needle, and if it reads 10, for example, then that corresponds to EV 11 at ISO 100 (i.e. LV 11). This makes it a fantastic direct-read meter if you like EV/LV.
Thanks for the input on the invercone. I'd be interested in hearing how you like it after using it a while. I like the design of the dial on the Weston V. It seems more legible to me as well.