M6 classic shutter jammed ! - aaaaarrrghh

[menos]

I was just loading cameras, packing the bag, to start, as my M6 classic's shutter jammed 🙁

I had the M6 not loaded with film and fitted the Motor-M to the M6 classic, to check out the handling, if I liked it (usually only use the Motor-M with the M7).

I dry fired the camera not loaded with film @ 1/1000, when the shutter jammed.
When I look at the camera from the front, I can see the metering dot on the curtain just fully visible on the right and the shutter curtain seam visible on the left side.

I did not try hamfisting something, but I can feel, that the film advance lever let's not advance (of course).

The shutter button can be freely, normally depressed, as if the camera is not advanced and cocked.

The camera worked flawlessly at all speeds, I regularly use (1/15 − 1/1000) before.
I could detect nothing wrong with it before this happened.

This is too bad.

In a quick operation, I adjusted the RF on my M7 (the reason, why I used the M6 for the last days on holiday photo shoot assignment).

I fixed the M7, loaded, fitted Motor-M and just hope, the quick adjust is spot on.
I will see, when the film is developed (doing a lot of low light, close focus, low shutter speed, wide open shots 🙁)

Anyone knows, what I can check, do about the M6 shutter (please no "send to Solms" replies, as this is the obvious last way out).

Any pointers to jammed Leica M shutter speed read ups are welcome.

 

[Neare]

I don't know the answer but perhaps it might have something to do with the motor connection screw under the baseplate. Does the connector rotate at all?

 

[menos]

Thank you for the input!
I posted the same thread on the LUF and Andy gave away the idea, that solved everything.

I just had to release the film rewind lever into the upright position and the shutter immediately freed.

Everything is running perfectly fine, as before ;-) Very happy now.
This little hickup actually pushed me, to fix the M7, so I ended up, having both film bodies in working condition again ;-)

Does somebody have a pointer to a readup on the exact sequence, the camera goes through, to help me understand, what exactly happened?

 

[menos]

I can't believe it!
Now the same thing happened to my M7 - only with one difference, the camera could not be resurrected and likely has to go to Solms.

The camera is in this status:
- shutter curtain is visually fully wound (metering spot in same position as on a fully wound MP, no curtain seems are visible)
- the shutter release button is jammed - it cannot be depressed (the camera is on)
- the advance lever cannot be advanced
- the release disk is not in release position - the slot is about 30º cw from it's final release position -> the shutter release mechanism is therefore not fully advanced (slotted disk under the take up spool - you have to remove the take up spool, to see the disk)
- I can engage the rewind lever, leading to the sprocket wheel to disengage and turn freely - slightly (not forcefully) jiggling the take up spool sometimes leads to releasing the rewind lever again (as it should with the first normal advance)

I am a bit torn between opening the camera myself or having it given a complete overhaul in Solms with new DX reader, Vulcanite cover and MP finder upgrade.
This might not be cheap, as one knows Leica.

I conclude now, that the use of the Motor-M is not very reliable.
I am very reluctant, to put it on my new MP.

Anybody has any idea, how to remedy the problem without inspecting the advance gears under the top deck?
Is it possible, that the release disk under the take up spool can turn and get out of sync (the stud, which fixes the disc to position is not loose, the release disc also is not loose)?

 

[Vickko]

There is a nut that holds a bow-tie shaped disk, that holds the entire alignment together. Kind of like the "jesus nut" on a helicopter.
In classical M's, I've always seen this nut glued to the shaft and next disk.
If it comes, loose, alignment is gone and many many bad things can happen, first of which is jamming the camera.

Interesting that you've related this to the motor drive alignment.

Maybe the bowtie alignment nut has worked loose.

Vick

 

[menos]

There is a nut that holds a bow-tie shaped disk, that holds the entire alignment together. Kind of like the "jesus nut" on a helicopter.
In classical M's, I've always seen this nut glued to the shaft and next disk.
If it comes, loose, alignment is gone and many many bad things can happen, first of which is jamming the camera.

Interesting that you've related this to the motor drive alignment.

Maybe the bowtie alignment nut has worked loose.

Vick

Thanks for the info Vickko!

I have continued also in this thread with some further help from the nice people in the Brian Sweeney section:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103122

I guess, I know, which nut you mean.
It is very nicely illustrated in the Leica M2 (or M4 ?) repair manual in "fig 35"

It is the "nut" with inner thread, where the screw fits in, that holds the take up spool tulip in place.
I was reluctant, to dig behind this nut.

Further digging leaves me guessing, the right place, to look after next would be the wind on gear under the top plate for any jamming, but that is just guessing and blind finger pointing at this state.

 

[Vickko]

Um, no, that's not the nut that I mean.

The one I am referring to is only accessible after you remove the top plate. The side of the bow tie is a gear alignment face, and triggers a sensor arm to fall into place and stop the film advance, and readies the mechanism to refire.

Very hard to describe in words, but easy to see if you have an M apart with the top cover off.

And I am wondering with the force of the motor, that it has exerted enough force and vibration to work this nut loose, and cause the camera to loose its mechanical synchronization.

But if I had to start diagnosing the issue, that is where'd I'd start.

Oh, did you say you had this happen on an M7 too? I think the mechanics of an M7 are very different than an M6/M5/M4/M3/M2. I say this because the shutter of the M7 is electro-mechanical, and might have a very different release/advance/stop mechanism than the others. Makes me even more curious, if it gets "out of sync"

....Vick

...

It is the "nut" with inner thread, where the screw fits in, that holds the take up spool tulip in place.
I was reluctant, to dig behind this nut.

....