Dating 8.5cm Nikkor

[aoresteen]

I have a black Nikkor 8.5cm f/2 for my Nikon SP. The serial number is 496910.

Anyone have any idea when the lens was made? I'm just curious! 🙂

Thanks!

 

[VinceC]

Other people follow the numbers more closely than I do, but my older Rotoloni book says the black serial numbers began with 496000, and the black lenses were introduced with the SP in 1957, so your lens likely was made in '58, maybe '59. Mine is number 497049, and the numbers went up past 497600. There is a newer Rotoloni book with much more info, but I don't have a copy.

 

[aoresteen]

Thanks!

Nice to know about how old the glass is.

 

[MC JC86]

The later Rotoloni book has 496424 as a '59, so yours is most likely the same year I'd assume.

 

[MC JC86]

Oh, I thought the final # was 497xxx in '64. Thanks for the info.

EDIT: Does the O/P's lens have a C? Variations with/without after deletion in '58?

 

[Tom A]

There's two versions of the black Nikkor-P 8.5cm f2. The first version has the same barrel as the late chrome version and serial numbers are in the 399*** - 403*** range. The second and final version has a different lighter barrel, and serial numbers are in the range 496*** - 497***. Less than 2,000 of these were made. Your lens is this later version.

Jon, my black 85f2 is 404***. Same barrel as the late chrome version.

 

[aoresteen]

My 8.5cm is enroute to Pete Smith for service. I'll look at the C when I get it back.

Thanks!

 

[MC JC86]

In the book it also said they were made with and without the C and produced up until '64, is there an indication which S/N's correspond to later years?

EDIT: Obviously, I'm new to Nikon RF stuff.

 

[MC JC86]

In the book, it says "these final versions were available until the end of the RF era in 1964".

That's not the same thing as saying they were "made" until 1964 😉

The release of the Nikkor-P 10.5cm f2.5 in December 1953 pretty much killed sales of the Nikkor-P 8.5cm f2, as most people chose the longer lens for portraits. There is nothing about the red "C" being dropped on the Nikkor-P 8.5cm f2, and I've never seen one without the rec "C". The red "C" was dropped around 1957/58.

Thanks for the quick reply.

In my book (the '93 reprint) it says the the 85mm F/2 Nikkor-P was made with and without the "C" (in the chart) in the actual write up of the lens it says ".... the 85mm F/2.0 Nikkor-P that was made from 1953 until the end of the rangefinder era in 1964." The word "made" was the source of my confusion.


EDIT: The book I'm working from is "Nikon Rangefinder Camera: An Illustrated History of the Nikon Rangefinder Cameras, Lenses and Accessories" RJ Rotoloni

 

[MC JC86]

I need to get the new book. The picture in the '93 doesn't show the C in the image of the same lens. The chart that confused me was the Table Of Lenses on page 70 which says 'C' "yes/no" = both

Thanks for the information.

 

[Tom A]

I need to get the new book. The picture in the '93 doesn't show the C in the image of the same lens. The chart that confused me was the Table Of Lenses on page 70 which says 'C' "yes/no" = both

Thanks for the information.

Yes, you need the new book - but be warned, It induces serious Nikon Rf Lust! Also join the NHS (Nikon Historical Society) - great group of seriously demented collectors and users.
Robert, our President for Life, is trying to arrange the next bi-annual meeting in Paris next year and have it coincide with the Bievre mega swap meet.
Just imagine, good wine, good cheese, croissants and dusty cameras - what else could you want!

 

[MC JC86]

Tom- I actually have been a member for a very short time, really would love to be able to make the Paris meeting, but I'd have to sell some cameras (probably not gonna happen). I hear what you're saying about the book, even the quarterly induces a pavlovian response everytime I open it.

 

[Tom A]

I decided to pull out all thre of my 85f2's (dont ask - I dont know why either!)
Black: #404562
Chrome: #401031 (heavy bugger too!)
Chrome: #296031 (just as heavy!)
The 85's are nice lenses, but as Jon said - the 105f2.5 overpowers it. That is probably one the all time classics - and still will outperform many of the latest lenses.

The 85 was also one of the first "non" 50's made for the Nikon Rf's. Somewhere I read about how they were made in 1948/49/ Big, long table in a room with a canvas roof (still rebuilding). Barrels past along a group of assemblers who put in an element, checked it and passed it down the line for the next element and so on -until it reached the head of the table where the inspector checked it out. If it passed muster - it was put in the box. If not, he used a ball peen hammer, smashed the glass and dropped the offending mount in a barrel of water!!!! Nikon was truly conscious of shipping only the best! The barrels were over engineered and even after 50-60 years it is rare to find one of these with damaged or faulty helicoils. It takes a lot of force to dent one. The three I have range from a $135 one (Sanpo Camera) to the black one which is virtually mint as is the chrome one (#296xxx) - shooting with them show very little difference - though some fogging in the 2 nd chrome one shows slight lowering of contrast - but not enough to fret about - particularly in bl/w.
Yes, the Apo Lanthar 85f3.5 is lighter, probably sharper at f4 - but. unless I am traveling (weight is a consideration) - I use the 85 f2's quite a lot - they also look so "right" on a SP/S3.

 

[MC JC86]

You're a bad influence.

 

[Tom A]

You're a bad influence.

I like being that - makes me feel less lonely in my pursuit of Nikkors!
Oh, shelves are cheap - it is filling them up that cost money! I know whereof I speak,

 

[VinceC]

As far as actual dates of construction. It's helpful to appreciate that the Nikon SP and later S3 sold in respectable numbers (under 40,000 total units for both cameras combined) -- kept a lot of people in work, provided excellent cameras and lenses for discriminating photojournalists and enthusiests. But for cameras and lenses, sales measured in the thousands and tens of thousands weren't necessarily rocking the Nikkei stock index. The SP was proving to be popular by Nikon standards, but you're still looking at hand-assembled volumes of production.
The introduction of the Nikon F in 1959-'60 changed all that. The popularity of the SLR grew so swiftly and so formidably that it changed the company (units and lens sales in the hundreds of thousands and millions) because the SLR was almost instantly adopted by the professionals and enthusiests who were the company's lifeblood. The SLR switchover seemed to have happened much faster than anyone anticipated (the original business plan was side-by-side constrution of RFs and SLRs with shared components). With RFs suddenly not selling except to a very very few die-hards (who already owned one) Nippon Kogaku probably had a lot of inventory on its hands for several years.
That's why you find reports of such-and-such a lens available up to '64, or an early-ish serial number that sold in '59. The actual production of lenses more than likely took place in the golden moment of the SP -- late '57 thru early '59 -- a very brief period -- but that with later production runs of lenses and cameras, it might have taken several years to sell off the inventory.

EDIT: For example, look at Cosina Voigtlaender. Their production of Nikon-S equipment took place over a brief time many years ago, and due to limited market demand, the stock is still being sold new from inventory. The problem with Nikon RF users is that there are very few of us, and we already own the stuff, the stuff never breaks, so it's hard to sell us something new.

 

[aoresteen]

....EDIT: For example, look at Cosina Voigtlaender. Their production of Nikon-S equipment took place over a brief time many years ago, and due to limited market demand, the stock is still being sold new from inventory. The problem with Nikon RF users is that there are very few of us, and we already own the stuff, the stuff never breaks, so it's hard to sell us something new.

VinceC,

I agree. The Contaflex & Contarex killed the Contax IIa/IIIa sales as well.


I bought just one SC lens - the 25mm for my SP/IIa. I have a lot of RF lenses allready for my Leica If,IIIf,M3-MOT, and M4-P and don't need to get them in S mount. I was tempted to get the 21mm SC but I have it in LTM. Ditto on the 28 & 35mm lenses. I didn't have the 25mm and the SC version is RF couppled so that was an easy decision. It spends most of it's time on my IIa body.

As for 85mm lenses, I have the S Nikkor, a Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 in C/Y mount and the Zukio 85mm f/2 for my OM SLRs. Why buy the Voigtlander?

 

[aoresteen]

So where should I go to get Robert Rotoloni's book?

Is the 3rd edition the most current?

Thanks!

 

[Tom A]

Just go to the Nikon Historical Society" site on the left of the screen. Click on The "Nikon Rangefinder Compendium". It is not cheap, but worth every cent. 400+ pages of pictures and information, enough to make you drool severely. First reading, wear a bib!

 

[MC JC86]

As for 85mm lenses, I have the S Nikkor, a Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 in C/Y mount and the Zukio 85mm f/2 for my OM SLRs. Why buy the Voigtlander?

Why not?

Seriously.. only because of weight/compactness that Tom referred it.. it's a very nice lens but I'd choose the Nikon first.