My daughter needs a film rangefinder for School! Something tough and long lasting!

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Hello, my daughter just finished her fashion studies and she is now entering a great photography school in France. It seems that for her course she will need to buy a film rangefinder.

As a professional photographer myself I have unfortunately not have had much experience with film or rangefinders, I always shot with digital SLRs ever since I started a few years back.

Now I have set a budget of no more than £700 for the body. My daughter wants a Leica but she doesn't seem to realise how expensive Leicas are, not to forget the lenses. Could anyone here please advise on what I should buy for her? She would prefer to buy a new camera rather than used (I think this may be due to OCD, she always sees mistakes and scratches on everything, a used camera would be the end of the world for her even though it would be much cheaper for me... Oh well.), she will use it for portraiture and street photography, she will mostly use black and white film. A friend of mine dropped me an e-mail telling me to look at Voigtlander's range, but he is on holiday so I won't be able to get ahold of him for a while. I didn't know they made cameras, those must be expensive though... Any suggestions? Thanks!

PS: Did I mention that it should be tough and long lasting? She is a little clumsy... Broke my Nikkor 70-200 the other day... :(
 
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I've studied photography, and never once used a Rangefinder at the school, does the school insist on an RF? It's just that I'm sure you know you can get a SLR for a fraction of the price of even a Voightlander Bessa (they are nice cameras mind).

MT
 
hello,
-Canonet QL17 GIII with a 40mmf1.7 ? good for a start, reliable and cheap!
or a konica hexar AF with a 35mm f2 fixed lens, top one !
 
Voigtlander R3 A or M
Reliable, not too pricey.
Solid
Easy to load and rewind.
Aperture priority metering on the R3A

great camera and my personal favorite modern rangefinder.

The age of the leica, the expense, the difficult loading, the maintenance likely required and the lack of metering (on most) make it not worth it.

All rangefinders must be treated with care, misalignment of the RF will happen if dropped. That is a universal truth.

Good luck!
 
mugent said:
I've studied photography, and never once used a Rangefinder at the school, does the school insist on an RF? It's just that I'm sure you know you can get a SLR for a fraction of the price of even a Voightlander Bessa (they are nice cameras mind).

MT
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I was surprised too but they teach film only as an "artistic discipline" while she receives all the professional teaching, workshops etc, working with digital equipment. Black and White film and processing is a compulsory part of her first year and seems to count for 1/5 of the mark. Strange but well... My daughter chose this school because it has this reputation of being so artistic.
 
I'm thinking you could easily do a Leica M for 700 GBP ($1125 usd).

But, there are so many other factors - like, meter? No meter? What lenses? Black? Chrome?

You could easily do an M4-P for that price, modern, all framelines, etc.

Or an M6 if you want a meter.

And get a 35mm or 50mm lens and you're set.

Vick
 
I'd recommend a Voigtlander Bessa R2M or R3M. There are also the R2A and R3A models which have aperture-priority automatic exposure, but the instructors at the school will likely discourage the use of automatic modes on cameras. So in that case, the R2M or R3M would be your best bet. They can be found on B & H for about 700 USD, so roughly half of your budget. They use the same lens mount as Leica, so your daughter can upgrade to Leica lenses later if she saves up some money, and then she can always get the Leica camera to go with them. As for Voigtlander's lens lineup, the school will also probably prefer the use of a 35mm or 50mm lens to start out. Voigtlander's 35mm f/1.4 Nokton lens costs about $550. Spend the savings compared to a Leica on some film and some great French food!
 
International said:
I was surprised too but they teach film only as an "artistic discipline" while she receives all the professional teaching, workshops etc, working with digital equipment. Black and White film and processing is a compulsory part of her first year and seems to count for 1/5 of the mark. Strange but well... My daughter chose this school because it has this reputation of being so artistic.
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I guess RFs have an artsy quality, but a film SLR will give indiscernable results for a lot less money, the lenses are usually a fraction of the cost too.

I guess I'd want a Leica too if someone else was paying!

MT
 
700 pounds would easily net you an M6 body these days. If she wants a Leica, get her a Leica, not some ugly budget camera of the 1970s. The girl's going to fashion school, she has to be comfortable with it in front of peers.

EIDT: OK, she actually *finished* the fashion school already. None the less, get her a Leica :)
 
If you want new, and want interchangeable lenses- you are looking at buying a Voigtlander Bessa, probably an R3a. Lenses- the 40/1.4 Nokton is a good beginning lens. Check out the cameraquest.com site, sponsor of RFF. Very good descriptions of the cameras and lenses.

If she does not need interchangeable lenses, then a world of used fixed-lens RF's come up. But these are no longer available new. The Canonet Ql17 GIII is a good one, and you could get one like new for $150~$200. Will take patience.
 
Any preference for focal length on the lens? 50? 40? 35? Metered body, or unmetered?
Buying a new M7 or M6 might be tricky on the budget you're looking at. Even recent Bessa bodies - R2, R3, R4 are reliable shooters, and will eat up most of your budget. Zeiss Ikon is another modern option, with lots of flashing LEDs and stuff in the window.
Old bodies? Go sans-piles, refined and retro with an M3 or M2, cheaper with a Canon P, or Nikon S series.

FIxed lens? Canonets, Olympus 35RC, RD, will give control over shutter speed and aperture, mostly 40mm I think. There are more excellent options but with less control - yashica, olympus trip, etc.

RFF is an excellent source of info, full of helpful hints, just don't take us all too seriously :)
Oh and there is a classified section of course.

I read Karen Nakamura and Cameraquest many times, and found their RF camera profiles helpful http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm for more info and http://www.photoethnography.com/equipment.html

Welcome to the world of rangefinder photography

Alex
 
If she is clumsy, I see rangefinder alignment issues in the future... and if she gets a Leica, some dinged up baseplates when she drops them trying to load film.
I'd recommend a Bessa R3A with a Zeiss Planar f/2 lens. I have an R4A for sale but it's best for 21-35mm focal lengths. But you are paying for it, so get whatever you can afford knowing that it is just a tool. If she really complains, get her a Holga :)
 
varjag said:
700 pounds would easily net you an M6 body these days. If she wants a Leica, get her a Leica, not some ugly budget camera of the 1970s. The girl's going to fashion school, she has to be comfortable with it in front of peers.

EIDT: OK, she actually *finished* the fashion school already. None the less, get her a Leica :)
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A girl of just 20 years doesn't need a Leica I think, I already spoil her enough... :D My wife is pushing me to buy her a nice rangefinder for her 21st which is the same week than when the school starts so... But a Leica, I don't think I can afford a new one like she wants. And I still think she is too young for such treasure!

jaredangle said:
I'd recommend a Voigtlander Bessa R2M or R3M. There are also the R2A and R3A models which have aperture-priority automatic exposure, but the instructors at the school will likely discourage the use of automatic modes on cameras. So in that case, the R2M or R3M would be your best bet. They can be found on B & H for about 700 USD, so roughly half of your budget. They use the same lens mount as Leica, so your daughter can upgrade to Leica lenses later if she saves up some money, and then she can always get the Leica camera to go with them. As for Voigtlander's lens lineup, the school will also probably prefer the use of a 35mm or 50mm lens to start out. Voigtlander's 35mm f/1.4 Nokton lens costs about $550. Spend the savings compared to a Leica on some film and some great French food!
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Ahh, thanks!

gekopaca said:
What sort of Photo school ask for a RF camera to the students?!?
Gosh!
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I can only nod at that, I had to buy her a Nikon D700 for the digital course, not to forget an 85mm and a 50mm... She's lucky, I still use a D2X for work. At least my wife paid for the lenses. But I mean seriously, who's got a D700 at 20 years of age? I hope my daughter thinks I'm a great dad :rolleyes:
 
Why doesn't anybody advice the ZI ? I don't know the price new, but it's cheaper then a Leica and better then a Bessa (mind you: I like Bessa's).

Stefan.
 
I had a Nikon F2a and a Nikon F when I was her age.

But I worked at a camera shop and bought it myself, while going to school. And paid for my own tuition.

The Zeiss Ikon, with a lens- is a bit more than the stated budget, but certainly less than the Leica.
 
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