Why no 28 f 1.4 lenses in M mount?

[presspass]

We have plenty of 35s in 1.4 and at least one faster; there are several 1.4/1.5 and down to 0.95 in 50s; and even 1.4 lenses in 21 and 24 if you have the bucks. But there are no 28mm lenses with a 1.4 max aperture. That seems odd, since many M mount cameras have frames for this lens built in. Anybody know why none of these lenses have been built? (Or, if I'm wrong, who built them and when.)
Thanks

 

[Archlich]

I always have faith in Leica that they'll make a 28mm Summilux ASPH that goes for $5,995 someday.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

I'm not sure why you seem to imply that because an M-mount camera has frames for 28mm that there should necessarily be a 1.4 aperture lens available? There are f2/28 lenses available which most people would be satisfied with. I have one and also a f3.5/28.

Placing them side by side gives a possible answer to your question. The f2 is larger in both diameter, length and weight. An f1.4 lens would necessarily be that much larger and heavier again and probably start to intrude into the viewfinder area and these have never been overly popular. Most wide angle lenses are of modest aperture in order to keep the size and cost down. There are some (expensive) exceptions to this, of course.

I'd suspect that the lens manufacturers have examined their M-mount market and concluded there are not enough potential sales to warrant the cost and effort of introducing an f1.4/28 into their M range. Else they would have done it. Much easier to design such a lens for the SLR market where the viewfinder isn't an issue and the sales potential is much higher.

 

[Freakscene]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=65309

Marty

 

[Mark T]

I agree. It would block even more of the view finder than the 28/2 already does - especially with a hood. 24's and 21's have external finders which don't get blocked.

 

[Nikkor AIS]

Here is a picture of my 28 1.9 ASPH mounted on a Leica M7 and motor drive in M mount and the legendary Nikkor 28 1.4 AF-D mounted on a Nikon F3/T with MD-4.
I think it's a fair question to ask; why is there no 28 1.4 for the M mount?

 

[Steve Ash]

Summilux 28

Summilux 28

Actually that is the lens I would like to see aswell. It should not be a design problem as it would be smaller than the Summilux 24. I think it is more a marketing issue as the Summicron 28 which is a wonderful lens is one of the big sellers.

Regards
Steve

 

[glchua]

For 24 and 21, external viewfinders are necessary. Probably lens size would not be a big issue. Also, such lenses have more depth of field and correct focus is not so critical. This would make the mandatory use if viewfinders not such an issue.

A 28 lux would be big. I have the 28 cron and it already intrudes a little too much into the viewfinder. External viewfinder is not so easy to use for 28 lux as accurate focus is still critical. That would rule it out. So, I for one, even with the mega bucks, will not likely want to use a 28 lux.

 

[Turtle]

I surely has nothing to do with size, Leigh, because there is a 21 and 24 lux, both of which being larger, heavier and more expensive than a 28 lux would be.

I too find it a little odd, but then again there is a 28 cron and there never was a 21 or 24 cron.

 

[philosomatographer]

I surely has nothing to do with size, Leigh, because there is a 21 and 24 lux, both of which being larger, heavier and more expensive than a 28 lux would be.

I too find it a little odd, but then again there is a 28 cron and there never was a 21 or 24 cron.

It likely does have everything to do with size. As others have mentioned, 21mm/24mm lenses use external finders that are physically further away from the lens, so the lenses can be bigger. 28mm lenses are more size-constrained than any other focal-length on the M leica, because of a built-in 28mm finder that sits very close to the lens (Leica would have a hard time selling a 28mm lens that is not usable with their cameras' built-in 28mm finders, no?).

I suspect that the 28mm Summicron ASPH will remain the flagship 28mm lens form Leica. It's just 'adequately' usable with the built-in 28mm finder as it is.

The other part of your question - why no 21mm and 24mm Summicrons... well, Leica cannot make *four* versions of every foca length now, can they? I think a f/3.8, f/2.8, f/1.4 lens range in these focal lengths are already more than what could be asked for in this tiny, insignificant camera market segment.

I myself would also have loved compact f/2.0 M-mount lenses here (I use the Olympus OM system, and their 21mm and 24mm f/2.0 lenses are brilliant, and even smaller than Leica's f/2.8 lenses, and these are SLR lenses!)

 

[Turtle]

Good point, but I happily use my 24 lux with the entire 0.58 finder and while there is a fair amount of occlusion, it works. With a 24 finder on top you have the best of both worlds. I suspect a 28 lux could be made a fair amount smaller if the same compromises were made with a 28 as were made to keep the 24 lux sensible (for M8 usage in that case), but can imagine there would be too much blockage for most people. Seems that the 21 was made 'no holds barred' because no internal finder would be used with it. Its miles bigger than the 24 at the objective end.

 

[jsrockit]

I'd be satisfied with a cheap and fast 28mm that was small. The CV f/2 is just too large for a 28mm IMO.

 

[PatrickONeill]

psshaw... ƒ1.4 is too slow 😎

Obviously, this is a typo from an old "The Program" marketing material put out by Leica

 

[ferider]

I like 28 as much as the next guy, but I've never shot a 28 picture that couldn't truly have been taken with a 35.

 

[rogerzilla]

I think that's the point. 28mm is a less commonly-used focal length than 35, 50 or 90 and therefore there isn't the market for such a wide range of maximum apertures. 28mm is getting too wide for the majority of people shots but, conversely, can often be too narrow for architecture or landscapes.

I used to have the CV 28/3.5, a small and very nicely made lens. I think I took about six shots with it in six years.

 

[Nikkor AIS]

This thread is turning into 28-mm bashing and I intend to turn that around.
I think to say the 28 mm isn't commonly used is a personal opinion and not a statement of fact. 50% of my work is done with the 28 mm, either on a Nikon mount or Leica M. For me, oftentimes the 24 mm is a little bit too wide and the 35 mm is a little bit too long whereas the 28 mm is just right (like the third bowl of porridge 🙂). While a couple of mm doesn't sound like much, in the field the difference can be significant.

The 28 really lets you "get in there" and yet still blurs the background and gives context to the environment. Here is a good example.



I have a long thread on the 28 1.9 on this forum for more samples and a Nikkor 28 1.4 thread on the Nikon Cafe and the FM forum.


















Nikkor 28 1.4 AF-D on D3

 

[aoresteen]

Lack of demand I suppose. I have the 28mm Ultron f/1.9 which is as fast as it gets. I find that it is fast enough for HP-5.

Lately I've been using smaller slower lenses and I doubt that I would ever buy a 28mm f/1.4. When I'm really pressed for speed I use my Canon 50mm f/1.2 and step back.

For a f/1.4 wide angle lens I would get the CV 35mm f/1.4 in M mount.

 

[jarski]

28 is usable both on crop and full frame, I bet its one of most sought for lengths for RF's at the moment.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Turn it around. Why should there be a 28 Summilux?

Of course, you can equally well ask why there should be 21 and 24 Summiluxes. I'd give the same answer. I'm surprised there's enough demand.

In other words, I'm not surprised there's no 28 Summilux, but equally, I'd not be surprised if they announced one tomorrow. Of course 28 is a personal choice. But it's probably a less popular personal choice than a 'wide standard' (35mm, my choice for decades) or a true wide of 21mm or possibly 24mm.

Cheers,

R.

 

[damien.murphy]

I'm more surprised that there is are so many Leica 24mm lenses, considering most M's (M8 - only exception ?)have no built in framelines for 24mm.

I am a bit surprised that there is no 28mm summilux, but definitely fall into the category of people who have no personal need for such a lens. Odd though that there is none, given the 21mm & 24mm summiluxes available. I would have thought the three most used focal lengths for M shooters would have been 28mm, 35mm & 50mm.

I disagree that buyer demand is the only driver of such lens design decisions though, as exotic lenses like a 28mm f1.4, tend to be produced either as a statement of intent or for flagship reasons..