SciAggie
Well-known
So, while on spring break this week I developed my first 3 rolls of film since I was in college (30 years ago). As one should, I am trying to evaluate my workflow from exposure through processing and then scanning. The problem is that I do not have an experience base to help guide my decision process for evaluating my work.
I have looked at other's work and made my developer/ processing choice based on the results of those whose work I admire. I have read threads like "expose for shadows and develop for highlights". I have tried to take notes as I take pictures (an evolving process).
Here is my question; how do others evaluate their negatives? If your results do not match your goals, how do you identify the error? Was it an expose error? Do you need to increase/ decrease development time? Do you need to make a different developer choice? Is the scanning process deficient? Since all of these variables are related, where does one begin? It seem a little haphazard to just randomly pick an area to begin experimenting.
For the sake of discussion, here is the process I started with:
M4 Camera, 35mm Summicron
Arista 400 film shot at ISO 400
Incident metering
HC-110 + Rodinal developer (charjohncarter process - I liked his images)
Plustek 7600i + Silverfast scanner used at default settings
Here is a resulting image - This was shot in overcast conditions late in the day. It seems overexposed. The grain also seems more pronounced than it should be. Where would you start for improvement?
This is not meant as an image critique, but rather a workflow discussion, although critiques are welcome.
I have looked at other's work and made my developer/ processing choice based on the results of those whose work I admire. I have read threads like "expose for shadows and develop for highlights". I have tried to take notes as I take pictures (an evolving process).
Here is my question; how do others evaluate their negatives? If your results do not match your goals, how do you identify the error? Was it an expose error? Do you need to increase/ decrease development time? Do you need to make a different developer choice? Is the scanning process deficient? Since all of these variables are related, where does one begin? It seem a little haphazard to just randomly pick an area to begin experimenting.
For the sake of discussion, here is the process I started with:
M4 Camera, 35mm Summicron
Arista 400 film shot at ISO 400
Incident metering
HC-110 + Rodinal developer (charjohncarter process - I liked his images)
Plustek 7600i + Silverfast scanner used at default settings
Here is a resulting image - This was shot in overcast conditions late in the day. It seems overexposed. The grain also seems more pronounced than it should be. Where would you start for improvement?
This is not meant as an image critique, but rather a workflow discussion, although critiques are welcome.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Clear film where you wanted shadow detail = underexposure. Increase in 1/3 stop rests.
Too much grain = either wrong developer (more likely) or overexposure (less likely).
Scanning = exaggerated grain (almost always).
Cheers,
R.
Too much grain = either wrong developer (more likely) or overexposure (less likely).
Scanning = exaggerated grain (almost always).
Cheers,
R.
SciAggie
Well-known
Thanks Rodger. I spend a lot of time on your site as well. The fun in the "quest" for images that match the image I see in my mind at the time of exposeure is the reason I am back to film. When I am in my easy chair at home browsing the net, it all seems so easy and clear...
tlitody
Well-known
- shadows blocked up or black requires more exposure.
- Shadows too light requires less exposure.
- Highlights blown out requires less development
- Highlights too grey/muddy requires more development
- Overall contrast too low requires more development. You might get a small bit (1/3rd) stop increase in film speed if you increase dev by +45%.
- Overall contrast too high requires less development (-30% guess) and you may lose a small bit of film speed doing that (1/3 stop).
tlitody
Well-known
green tends to look very mid grey in an image and frequently kills it. If you have a lot of grass in the image consider using a red (maybe orange for less effect) filter to darken it,
julio1fer
Well-known
Good advice in previous answers. The classical advice would be doing a proper test roll, more or less as follows.
Expose a 36-frame roll with 7 series of 5 pictures, each series with exactly the same subject (for instance, put the camera on a tripod and shoot the 5 frames just changing ISO). Each 5-frame series should be centered in box ISO, for instance -1 stop, -1/2 stop. box ISO, +1/2 stop, +1 stop.
For each 5-frame series choose subjects with a wide range of tones and representative of what you shoot. Each subject must have strong highlights, as well as shadows where you want detail. Try to get both high contrast and low contrast subjects if you can.
Develop following your standard routine (follow manufacturer's recommendations if you don't have preferences) and look for the frame in each series that gives best results in the negative strip, using a loupe. You want good detail in shadows, unblown highlights, and acceptable grain.
Look at the scans to confirm your choice.
This work may be boring but you only have to do it once with a given film and developer combination.
Once you have determined a good ISO - time - agitation routine combination, you can adjust from there if needed.
I'd also recommend to start using a simpler developing mix, for instance HC-110 in the dilution you prefer. Again, follow manufacturer's recommendations if you don't have preferences. Be sure to control temperature tightly and to have a repeatable agitation routine.
Expose a 36-frame roll with 7 series of 5 pictures, each series with exactly the same subject (for instance, put the camera on a tripod and shoot the 5 frames just changing ISO). Each 5-frame series should be centered in box ISO, for instance -1 stop, -1/2 stop. box ISO, +1/2 stop, +1 stop.
For each 5-frame series choose subjects with a wide range of tones and representative of what you shoot. Each subject must have strong highlights, as well as shadows where you want detail. Try to get both high contrast and low contrast subjects if you can.
Develop following your standard routine (follow manufacturer's recommendations if you don't have preferences) and look for the frame in each series that gives best results in the negative strip, using a loupe. You want good detail in shadows, unblown highlights, and acceptable grain.
Look at the scans to confirm your choice.
This work may be boring but you only have to do it once with a given film and developer combination.
Once you have determined a good ISO - time - agitation routine combination, you can adjust from there if needed.
I'd also recommend to start using a simpler developing mix, for instance HC-110 in the dilution you prefer. Again, follow manufacturer's recommendations if you don't have preferences. Be sure to control temperature tightly and to have a repeatable agitation routine.
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atlcruiser
Part Yeti
One thing to keep in mind is what you will be doing next with the negative, scan, wet print or both.
Your image looks OK...not great or horrible. Contrast might be a bit low, if you develop much longer you would lose the areas under the shed roof; might try just a touch longer.
I would suggesst that you go with an easy developer such as d 76 or HC-110 or rodinal. Take test rolls as described above and take notes. Take/develop pictures, do a LOT of this; really do 20-40 rolls in as short a period of time as you can. Your learing curve will be very quick and you can start to get what you want on a reliable basis.
Your image looks OK...not great or horrible. Contrast might be a bit low, if you develop much longer you would lose the areas under the shed roof; might try just a touch longer.
I would suggesst that you go with an easy developer such as d 76 or HC-110 or rodinal. Take test rolls as described above and take notes. Take/develop pictures, do a LOT of this; really do 20-40 rolls in as short a period of time as you can. Your learing curve will be very quick and you can start to get what you want on a reliable basis.
Steve M.
Veteran
What really helped me was to buy an inexpensive shutter tester. It ran $40, and ran on a free program called Audacity. I needed to know if the shutter was accurate before I even ran any film through the camera. Unfortunately it won't work on bottom loaders. Once I knew what the shutter was REALLY firing at, and I had a light meter that I knew was 100% accurate, then I was ready to make some photos.
Before doing this though, I always made sure to use the very best lenses that I could afford. Heliars, Planars, Summicrons, stuff like that. There's no sense trying to get great results from a sub prime lens. Could waste a lot of film and time doing that. Don't ask me how I know
Now that I had a properly exposed roll of negs, what next? I sent the negs over to A&I in Los Angeles and asked them to develop the roll in what I planned on using (Tri-X in D76). This gave me a master roll of negs to compare my home results to, whether that was w/ scanning or printing. I also now had something I could lay on a light table and compare my own developing results to. Make sure you use the same camera, film, lighting conditions, developer, etc that you had used on the roll you sent to A&I. And make sure the master shots you sent off for developing are really good in terms of using the right filter, no flare issues, etc.
From there on out it's pretty basic. The secret to all this is to nail down the variables one step at a time. Consistency will get you where you need to be. No one else's experience can help you. It needs to be your own, at least at first. Later, or if you have unexpected problems, then solicit some outside advice. I've found the folks at A&I to be super professional and willing to help me.
Before doing this though, I always made sure to use the very best lenses that I could afford. Heliars, Planars, Summicrons, stuff like that. There's no sense trying to get great results from a sub prime lens. Could waste a lot of film and time doing that. Don't ask me how I know
Now that I had a properly exposed roll of negs, what next? I sent the negs over to A&I in Los Angeles and asked them to develop the roll in what I planned on using (Tri-X in D76). This gave me a master roll of negs to compare my home results to, whether that was w/ scanning or printing. I also now had something I could lay on a light table and compare my own developing results to. Make sure you use the same camera, film, lighting conditions, developer, etc that you had used on the roll you sent to A&I. And make sure the master shots you sent off for developing are really good in terms of using the right filter, no flare issues, etc.
From there on out it's pretty basic. The secret to all this is to nail down the variables one step at a time. Consistency will get you where you need to be. No one else's experience can help you. It needs to be your own, at least at first. Later, or if you have unexpected problems, then solicit some outside advice. I've found the folks at A&I to be super professional and willing to help me.
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