thegman
Veteran
OK, I've got a ZI, at the moment, I only have 2 lenses for it, a 15mm Heliar, and a Summicron 50mm (rather old and battered).
I'm thinking of getting rid of both, but not quite sure what I'm looking to replace with. At the moment, my thoughts are between:
1) A 28mm Color Skopar and 50mm Nokton 1.1. Two very different lenses with different purposes.
2) A 35mm Biogon, and maybe an 85mm at a later date.
The 1.1 appeals for it's very different look, and it's speed. The 28mm would be my "every day" lens as it's small enough to go anywhere. The ZI with it's long range finder base length should be fine with the 1.1, but am I likely to have get it optimised for the 1.1?
The 35mm Biogon is probably the "best" lens of them all for me, as it's sharp with contrast, but the 1.1 does call out to me a bit.
Any Nokton 1.1 owners/ex-owners out there with thoughts? A Noctilux is not on the cards by the way...
Cheers
Garry
I'm thinking of getting rid of both, but not quite sure what I'm looking to replace with. At the moment, my thoughts are between:
1) A 28mm Color Skopar and 50mm Nokton 1.1. Two very different lenses with different purposes.
2) A 35mm Biogon, and maybe an 85mm at a later date.
The 1.1 appeals for it's very different look, and it's speed. The 28mm would be my "every day" lens as it's small enough to go anywhere. The ZI with it's long range finder base length should be fine with the 1.1, but am I likely to have get it optimised for the 1.1?
The 35mm Biogon is probably the "best" lens of them all for me, as it's sharp with contrast, but the 1.1 does call out to me a bit.
Any Nokton 1.1 owners/ex-owners out there with thoughts? A Noctilux is not on the cards by the way...
Cheers
Garry
jan normandale
Film is the other way
If you haven't already, check Tom Abrahamsson's images and review at Cameraquest :
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_5011.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rapidwinder/sets/72157616278125070/
http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt_5011.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rapidwinder/sets/72157616278125070/
ferider
Veteran
I would go with 2) simply because it's incredibly flexible (35/85). And for the 85, pick a 90/2 Summicron v3 or a Nikkor 85/2. 
I would have hesitated if you had said 50/1.1 Nokton and 28/1.9 Ultron for (1). The small 28/3.5 is good but often too slow in combo with a fast 50.
I would have hesitated if you had said 50/1.1 Nokton and 28/1.9 Ultron for (1). The small 28/3.5 is good but often too slow in combo with a fast 50.
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damien.murphy
Damien
As a Nokton f1.1 owner, I would argue that unless your need for wide apertures is pretty hardcore, there is not much you can't shoot with an f1.4 lens.
In my case, I found the Nokton too big for walkabout, day-to-day use, and use a 50mm Sonnar-C now.
I thought the Nokton could be my do everything lens in 50mm, but I underestimated its size, and figure many people are the same, with the churn rate on this lens. A quality optic though.
In my case, I found the Nokton too big for walkabout, day-to-day use, and use a 50mm Sonnar-C now.
I thought the Nokton could be my do everything lens in 50mm, but I underestimated its size, and figure many people are the same, with the churn rate on this lens. A quality optic though.
klapka
Established
I do like my Nokton 1.1 it's the most used one on my cam (I have only 4 lenses - this Nokton 1.1, Summicron 50, Summicron-C, Kobalux 28mm) at least in winter. It makes indoor low natural light shooting possible with no quality loss. An excelent lens.
Here's the one from it (M6 TTL):
For my M6 (which has a .85 viewfinder) I have bought a Leica 1.25 viewfinder magnifier which makes focusing easy and pleasent. And the Nokton is extremely sharp wide open. A great lens.
(The picture posted above was taken without 1.25 magnifier).
But in your list I also see a 35mm biogon - a lens I would also like to own..
Here's the one from it (M6 TTL):
For my M6 (which has a .85 viewfinder) I have bought a Leica 1.25 viewfinder magnifier which makes focusing easy and pleasent. And the Nokton is extremely sharp wide open. A great lens.
(The picture posted above was taken without 1.25 magnifier).
But in your list I also see a 35mm biogon - a lens I would also like to own..
kshapero
South Florida Man
My main squeezes are the CV 35/1.4 very small, versatile and an Elmarit 90/2.8, but CV 90/3.5 would work fine.
I'd choose #1. However, are you sure you like the 28mm enough for it to be your every day lens? The 1.1 is very large and heavy. It's very cool, but maybe not the best option for an all around 50mm.
klapka
Established
And one more word for Nokton 1.1: I like what it does with the background wideopen:
ferider
Veteran
One more thought on the 28/50 combo: I found that combo easier to use with a lens focusing closer than 1m. YMMV.
klapka
Established
Some more thoughts on Nokton:
People may say it is heavy - they are right since you got used to rangerinder lens size but as for me - it's of normal weight and size since I used to be a Nikon SLR shooter for years.
It does have a focus shift, so I use it wideopen (most of the time) or closed to f5,6 and less.
Don't think it will be my allround lens in sunny summer. It's for indoors and low lights.
And I don't like it at minimal distances like 1 m - it does it's best starting from 1.5 m.
But I do love the pics it delivers and consider it a must have lens (maybe not the only one to have) especialy knowing it's price.
People may say it is heavy - they are right since you got used to rangerinder lens size but as for me - it's of normal weight and size since I used to be a Nikon SLR shooter for years.
It does have a focus shift, so I use it wideopen (most of the time) or closed to f5,6 and less.
Don't think it will be my allround lens in sunny summer. It's for indoors and low lights.
And I don't like it at minimal distances like 1 m - it does it's best starting from 1.5 m.
But I do love the pics it delivers and consider it a must have lens (maybe not the only one to have) especialy knowing it's price.
Renzsu
Well-known
maybe a 28mm ultron and 50mm 1.5 nokton would be more flexible?
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
+1.
It's a specialty optic. Not bad or better, just different and likely not to see much use outside shooting it wide open.
The Biogon, though...that's a lens that can see everyday use, in almost any circumstance. And that Zeiss sharpness and contrast...
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Here's where you are now:
Ultrawide + slow
Good all-around, probably lower contrast.
You can do a lot with that pair. However, the 15 is really a specialty lens if you don't "see" that wide. I think that your 28/50 combo makes some sense. You've got wide-angle general, and low-light capabilities. I have the 50/1.1 and like it. It gives you 90% of the Noctilux's performance at 20% of the price if (and this is a big if) your sample focuses correctly with your camera. Years ago, when I was in Pentax land my three lenses were a 28/2.8, 50/1.7 and 100/2.8. I worked for a small paper quite happily for a year with that set up. When I sold that gear and went Nikon, I started with a 50/1.4 and 28/2.8 and went along for 3 years before finding a used 105/2.5 in a pawn shop. So a fast 50 and a wide angle covered a lot of what I wanted to do with a camera for a long time. Klapka's comment bear reading carefully. There is some focus shift inherent in the 50/1.1 design and learning your way around that can take some time. With digital, it's a relatively easy process because of digi's instant feedback. With film, you will have to make an effort to master it.
Ben
Ultrawide + slow
Good all-around, probably lower contrast.
You can do a lot with that pair. However, the 15 is really a specialty lens if you don't "see" that wide. I think that your 28/50 combo makes some sense. You've got wide-angle general, and low-light capabilities. I have the 50/1.1 and like it. It gives you 90% of the Noctilux's performance at 20% of the price if (and this is a big if) your sample focuses correctly with your camera. Years ago, when I was in Pentax land my three lenses were a 28/2.8, 50/1.7 and 100/2.8. I worked for a small paper quite happily for a year with that set up. When I sold that gear and went Nikon, I started with a 50/1.4 and 28/2.8 and went along for 3 years before finding a used 105/2.5 in a pawn shop. So a fast 50 and a wide angle covered a lot of what I wanted to do with a camera for a long time. Klapka's comment bear reading carefully. There is some focus shift inherent in the 50/1.1 design and learning your way around that can take some time. With digital, it's a relatively easy process because of digi's instant feedback. With film, you will have to make an effort to master it.
Ben
thegman
Veteran
Hi all,
Thanks a lot for the input, the examples of the 1.1 wide open make me want to buy one, but yes, it's very big and something of a niche lens. I think maybe also I need to rethink the choice of a 28mm, I prefer 35mm but 28mm sort of makes more sense as a set with a 50mm to me. But as an every day, 28mm is maybe not for me.
I used to have a Nokton 1.4, liked it, but I didn't really like it wide open, not sure why, just did not take to it.
Still have a lot of thinking to do I think. Biogon makes sense, but the 1.1 is exotic, and that has it's own appeal.
Thanks a lot for the input, the examples of the 1.1 wide open make me want to buy one, but yes, it's very big and something of a niche lens. I think maybe also I need to rethink the choice of a 28mm, I prefer 35mm but 28mm sort of makes more sense as a set with a 50mm to me. But as an every day, 28mm is maybe not for me.
I used to have a Nokton 1.4, liked it, but I didn't really like it wide open, not sure why, just did not take to it.
Still have a lot of thinking to do I think. Biogon makes sense, but the 1.1 is exotic, and that has it's own appeal.
Go with the Nokton. It is much better than the 50 year old Canon 50/1.2, the next closest in price/performance.
If Cosina discontinues this lens, the prices are going to skyrocket like the Canon 50/0.95. I have two of those and the Nokton, the Nokton is far better.
If Cosina discontinues this lens, the prices are going to skyrocket like the Canon 50/0.95. I have two of those and the Nokton, the Nokton is far better.
thegman
Veteran
That's a though, had not really thought of it as investment material, but that's makes it easier to justify...
I do want one, and maybe a 35mm Color Skopar as an every day, sharp, contrasty lens for my general holiday snaps.
I like the idea of two lenses with very different purposes, when I had the 35mm Nokton and the Summicron, I rarely bothered to change lenses as they're both fast and both moderate focal lengths with characteristics which I find hard to tell apart just by looking at shots.
back alley
IMAGES
i look forward to the day that i can buy another 50/1.1...it's a great lens, capable of great images.
the cv 35/2.5 would make an excellent partner to it.
the cv 35/2.5 would make an excellent partner to it.
thegman
Veteran
Thanks, I'm definitely swaying that way now, 35mm is my favourite focal length, so it's good that the lens I use the most will be tiny. Then I've got the Nokton for night and indoors. I'll muse on it a bit longer, but I think that's what I'll do.
