Prices for 50/2 Summicron-M + 90/2.8 Elmarit-M?

[loquax ludens]

I need lenses for my newly purchased M3 that should be arriving in a few days. I've found a 50/2 Summicron-M for $1200 and a 90/2.8 Elmarit-M for $1800. Both lenses are said to be in excellent+ condition. The pictures of them seem to bear that out.

The 50/2 Summicron is the 1979 to 1994 type (version 4) that has the focusing tab instead of a focusing ring, and the plastic clip-on hood. The 90mm is the most recent 1994 to 2008 version with the 46mm filter.

Are those reasonable prices for these lenses?

 

[kiemchacsu]

Have you checked this site?
$1800 for the 90/2.8 is higher than normal.

 

[250swb]

A couple of years ago you would have reversed those prices with the Summicron being the more expensive lens. Perhaps its a sign that so many people are now appreciating the 90mm Elmarit as one of Leica's best lenses. I would have thought it should be a tiny bit cheaper, but if it really is Ex + then maybe $1800 is OK.

Steve

 

[loquax ludens]

this can be useful:

http://www.antiquecameras.net/leicamcameras.html

Thanks. According to that site, $1200 for a type 4 Summicron 50/2 is in the ballpark.


I'm not sure about the 90mm. The antiquecamera site does not list prices for the 90/2.8 Elmarit-M, but it lists two price ranges for a type 1 and type 2 90/2.8 Elmarit (without the M). I presume those are two versions manufactured from 1954 to 1974. The Tele-Emarit was manufactured from 1974 to 1990. The Elmarit-M, which is the one I'm referring to, was manufactured from 1990 to 2008.

 

[loquax ludens]

Have you checked this site?
$1800 for the 90/2.8 is higher than normal.

It is not clear to me that the 90/2.8 Elmarit listed there is the same as the 90/2.8 Elmarit-M. The site lists serials, but not years of manufacture. I think the two non-tele 90/2.8 lens listings are the older pre-1990 versions.

 

[loquax ludens]

A couple of years ago you would have reversed those prices with the Summicron being the more expensive lens. Perhaps its a sign that so many people are now appreciating the 90mm Elmarit as one of Leica's best lenses. I would have thought it should be a tiny bit cheaper, but if it really is Ex + then maybe $1800 is OK.

Steve

Perhaps due to the M9 creating a new market for 90mm lenses? Just a guess, I really have no idea. But all Leica M lenses seem to have gone up in price lately.

 

[venchka]

Look again. The 90 Elmarit Type 2 lists serial numbers to "-current" which I take to mean the last one built. I will check the numbers on mine. I own the first and the last versions.

90 Elmarit F2.8 Type 2 $ 825-1,250 3,480,000 - Current

 

[loquax ludens]

Is the serial number by itself a reliable indicator of the lens series? Could there be any overlap in the numbers from an earlier version to a newer? The 90 Elmarit F2.8 Type 2 is not an official designation by Leica, as far as I know. I can't find a definition of type 1 and type 2. The lens I'm looking at is called a 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M.

Ken Rockwell lists the 90mm Elmarit lenses as:

1990 - 2008: 90mm ELMARIT-M f/2.8
1974 - 1990: 90mm TELE-ELMARIT-M f/2.8
1964 - 1974: 90mm TELE-ELMARIT f/2.8
1959 - 1974: 90mm ELMARIT f/2.8

So do you think the 1959 - 1974 on the last line is the one referred to as "type 1", and the 1990 - 2008 on the first line is the "type 2"?

If so, then everybody is asking about $800 to $1000 more for that lens than the prices that the antique cameras site lists. That's a huge discrepancy. Basically more than double.

 

[jljohn]

FWIW--I have found that prices are rising so rapidly right now that sites like antiquecamera are out of date, even if updated a few months ago. I ordered an Ex condition 90mm Elmarit-M from KEH in January for $919. I have not seen any others since then on their site, and any 90mm elmarit-m lenses on ebay in the last month have closed at or above $1,400. Check out 50mm summicron prices at KEH and Ebay. KEH has a current 50mm Summicron (Ex+, NOT even coded) for $2,289. That's $290 MORE than the new price! And they just sold a 50mm Summicron version IV for over $1,900 (also not coded). On ebay, version IV and current lenses have been pushing over $1,500 lately, and even old collapsable crons are closing at over $600.

It almost seems like sellers figure you are lucky even to locate the lens you want, and the price is an afterthought. It is really getting crazy.

 

[dogberryjr]

Check out 50mm summicron prices at KEH and Ebay. KEH has a current 50mm Summicron (Ex+, NOT even coded) for $2,289. That's $290 MORE than the new price!

Wow, that is astounding.

 

[jljohn]

Wow, that is astounding.

And it seems that there is always someone willing to pay whatever is being asked. I am very curious to see how long that lens lasts.

 

[loquax ludens]

If you're not in a hurry to move an item, you may as well try to see what the market will bear.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

Those are realistic prices for the items that you listed. Prices of M-mount lenses have risen sharply since the introduction of the M9 and the lack of M mount lenses to accompany the new camera. The only question you might ask yourself is if those lenses are the ones you want. The V.3 in the 50mm Summicron is a little less expensive. Do you need the Elmarit v. the Tele-elmarit. Granted that the Elmarit is sharper but the Tele-elmarit is lighter and more appropriate for female protraits. The Tele-elemarit is also half the price and at that over the past 3 years probably tripled in price.

 

[loquax ludens]

Thank you for that input Steve.

The 50mm is the lens I'd likely use the most, so I want it to be in top condition. I don't like the integrated hood of the latest version, but a version 3 or 4 in top condition would suit me. I'd prefer a chrome version, but they are harder to find than the black ones and often seem to fetch a higher price. I'll settle for black.

As for the 90mm, I am really undecided between the Tele-Elmarit and the Elmarit-M. The Tele-Elmarit would use the same filters as the 50mm Summicron-M, and that would be a plus. The prices on them though seem to be almost as high as the Elmarit-M, at least when they are in top condition.

 

[rogerzilla]

Those prices sound expensive.

I paid (in the last month):

250 GBP for a 90/2.8 Elmarit-M in exc++ condition
600 GBP for a Summicron dual range in mint- condition

The Summicron DR is good value because it doesn't work properly on the M9.

 

[loquax ludens]

Those prices sound expensive.

I paid (in the last month):

250 GBP for a 90/2.8 Elmarit-M in exc++ condition
600 GBP for a Summicron dual range in mint- condition

The Summicron DR is good value because it doesn't work properly on the M9.

That would be about $403 and $968 in USD today. Prices like that would tickle me pink. Nothing on ebay is in that range. More than triple for the former and half again as much for the latter.

Thanks for the info on the Summicron DR. I had seen one described that way, and I wondered what it meant. So is it just a dual aperture scale? Or something else?

 

[venchka]

That would be about $403 and $968 in USD today. Prices like that would tickle me pink. Nothing on ebay is in that range. More than triple for the former and half again as much for the latter.

Thanks for the info on the Summicron DR. I had seen one described that way, and I wondered what it meant. So is it just a dual aperture scale? Or something else?

Go to CameraQuest.com and do some homework. The D.R. Summicron has rangefinder coupled close focusing capabilites. In addition to being one of the finest lenses ever made. Period.

Since I own all 3 - D.R. from 1961, first 90mm Elmarit from 1965 & last 90mm Elmarit-M from 2003 - I'll get my serial numbers and report back. Looks like I may have found the solution to funding a digital back for the 501 CM.

 

[loquax ludens]

I found this on Camerquest site: Leica 50/2 Dual Range Summicron. Thanks for the tip, Wayne. I like the close focus capability, but I bet it is harder to find the eyes that make that possible than it is to find the lens itself.



Edit: I figured it would be hard to find one with eyes, but lo and behold, there is one on ebay right now, from a Hong Kong seller. It looks like the later version, based on the emblem on the eyes.

 

[venchka]

As promised:
D.R. Summicron, 1961, 1834xxx
90 Elmarit, 1965, 2088xxx
90 Elmarit-M, 2003, 3917xxx

 

[loquax ludens]

Thanks Wayne. That confirms it then. What antiquecameras lists as a 90 Elmarit F2.8 type 2 is the 1990 - 2008: 90mm ELMARIT-M f/2.8.

So used prices on those appear to have really jumped up there of late.

After a lot of reading and also as a result of comments in this thread, I'm now favoring the 90mm f/2.8 Tele-Elmarit and the 50mm F/2 DR Summicron lens.