Leica LTM How can I tell if my IIIc is half-race?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
L

loquax ludens

Well-known
Local time
7:50 AM
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Messages
712
View My Gallery
I only just learned in another thread that a "half-race" IIIc is one that has a particular type of bearing on the curtain drum. I'm not sure what that is. Is it possible to determine what kind of bearing I have without disassembling the camera?

My camera SN is 3972xx and my Elmar 5cm SN is 599490. See photos.

In another thread, Bar8barian said that my lens was made in 1945. The s/n list on the Cameraquest site shows that my camera is in the serial number range for cameras that were made from 1943 through 1946.

Is there any way to pin down the manufacture date more precisely?

Here are some pics.

The covering on the camera is not original, obviously. Youxin Ye CLA'd the camera and put the new skin on back in 2004.

iiic.jpg



iiic-ra-lever.jpg



iiic-top.jpg
 
your camera has a late number for the wartime type iiic .
it is most likely from late 1945- mid 1946 .
the early wartime cameras had pin bearings , however only in certain areas .
the k series were the roller bearing types , with roller bearings on the top and bottom of both drums if i remember correctly .
after the war the full roller bearing set was considered overkill .
half race is an internet term , your camera has the same bearings as the postwar iiic .
the camera retains the step rewind top cover , so they are useing remaining parts , however it has the new type shutter assembly .
there are some postwar cameras in the early 391xxx series that have the k type full bearings however are not marked as such .
your camera looks very nice .
 
Thanks for the information, enasniearth. It's a bit fiddly to load and slower to shoot with than my Bessa R, but it's small, smooth, quiet, and unobtrusive. Not to mention cool looking.
 
Your camera is from 1946..............it is from a very rare last shippment of "Stepper" rewind cameras sent to the US Army at the end of April or start of May 1946, either
US Army Signal Corps or PX Exchange Services. (AES)

It is a F bearing camera, same set up as what became the Leica IIIF.

At first I thought this was my old camera? (while my camera had Aki-Asahi covering on it and a similar lens, I had to look into my records)

I once owned #397219 and it too had a #599xxx series Elmar f3.5/50 as "matching lens" your camera's lens is more than likely 100% the original lens to body, #599xxx series were all 1946 issue, your lens should also be coated.

#397xxx series cameras are the last of what's known here as the "Stepper" Leica IIIC's or the Leica IIIC SERIES ONE which ran in production from mid 1940 till May 1946.

Many of these cameras didn't survive service after WW2 (or are now in very poor condition) while most went to eager photographer's in the Army starved for a lightweight portable 35mm camera, looks like your camera did some "tripod duty" with the wear on the shutter button. 🙂

It's one of the BEST cameras of the series, but funny too.....when you open the bottom of the camera the instruction plate should be UPSIDE DOWN!

All the #396xxx and #397xxx cameras were made this way, no explanation, but in 25+ Years of collecting, I have never seen one with a properly installed plate, makes the camera even more unique.

Enjoy shooting with her!


Tom
 
Last edited:
Tom,

Thank you for the information about my camera. It's great to know some details about it.

The camera was not in good shape when it was given to me. The man who gave it to me was a friend of the original owner who had died years before. The camera sat in a box in his garage for a couple of decades unused after that. So I believe I am the third owner.

There was very little of the original vulcanite covering left on it, it was dirty, the shutter was sluggish, the rewind knob was very stiff, and the leather case had largely deteriorated. The lens was cloudy and dirty. I sent the body to Youxin Ye and the lens to Sherry Krauter for CLA. It was almost like a new camera when it came back to me. I think it looks quite good for its age. It's mechanically sound, and a pleasure to use.

The lens is coated. The instruction plate seems backward to me, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to look. The picture of the take up reel and film canister are reversed. They are depicted on the opposite side from where they actually are inserted in the camera. I wondered why they did it that way. It seemed non-intuitive.
 
Tom,

I have a IIIc stepper #393483 - not quite as late as the camera mentioned here. After a CLA, it is also like new.

Another Tom
 
loquax ludens said:
The picture of the take up reel and film canister are reversed. They are depicted on the opposite side from where they actually are inserted in the camera. I wondered why they did it that way. It seemed non-intuitive.
Click to expand...

I think that during March, April and May 1946 the person who normally did the instruction plate assemby/install was on sick leave, or seriously hitting the schnapps real bad...........someone seriously dropped the ball and over 800+ cameras were finished this way and ended up in the US Army Post Exchanges. OOOPS!!!! 😱

Makes for another unique Leica oddity in the chaotic times of the immediate postwar period at Leitz. 😀

Enjoy!

Tom
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom