Summarit f1.5 won't mount

[StillKicking]

I have an M mount Summarit 5cm f1.5 that mounts perfectly on both of my Leica M3's. However when I try to mount it on my Bessa R2A it simply will not click into place.

I can mount all of my other Leica M mount lenses (including my Summicron DR - it just won't focus to infinity) on the R2A with no problems.

Has anyone had similar a experience?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I have had original Leitz M-Mount adapters mount on my M3 but not on the M8. Close inspection revealed the mounting flanges of the lens were slightly bent.

Look for any signs of slight damage, the flange being bent outwards. That might explain it. I never had a problem with my Summarit on the bessa R2, but have never owned an R2a.

 

[presspass]

A similar problem with a Zeiss 50 1.5 M mount. It works fine on everything except one M6 and it simply won't click in. It's been that way since new. I'll have a look at the flanges; that never occurred to me. Thanks for the advice.

 

[StillKicking]

Thanks for the tip. I have looked at the flanges and it does look like one of the Summarit flanges is slightly damaged. That may well be the reason.

I think I will leave well alone. Pity..

 

[peterm1]

I think that there can be some slight differences in these adapters - even the Leica ones! Tolerances for Leica lens mounts must be very small. Interestingly I too once owned a Summarit with a Leitz adapter and found it was a quite difficult to mount on my Leica M camera bodies.

I eventually got the lens and the mount separated (it seems that a previous owner may have loktighted them together - which was another unrelated issue) and tried the adapter with other lenses.

From memory (I have since sold it) the adapter also was somewhat tight to mount when other lenses were in place. This makes sense of course as the lens should not make a difference.

And what is more, the problem persisted with each M body I tried it on (2 M3s and an M4P). So the issue clearly must be with tolerances of (or damage to) the adapter. I never noticed any damage (although I could not discount that.)

Interestingly I had other Leica adapters including another 50mm one, all of which were much less difficult to mount than this one. At the time I distinctly recall that I noted differences in appearance between them - principally that the chroming on the problematic adapter was much more shiny than the satin chrome on the others (and my impression was maybe it was a little thicker) than on all of the others.

Could this be the issue with yours????????

 

[ed1234]

I would take the roll of film out from the R2a, open the back, turn the shutter to bulb and hold the curtain open and look through it from the back and mount the lens at the same time and see if anything unusual. Is the focusing coupling resting on the rear of the lens properly, Etc.

 

[StillKicking]

I would take the roll of film out from the R2a, open the back, turn the shutter to bulb and hold the curtain open and look through it from the back and mount the lens at the same time and see if anything unusual. Is the focusing coupling resting on the rear of the lens properly, Etc.

I will give that a try.. I am still curious to know why it is not mounting.

 

[StillKicking]

I think that there can be some slight differences in these adapters - even the Leica ones! Tolerances for Leica lens mounts must be very small. Interestingly I too once owned a Summarit with a Leitz adapter and found it was a quite difficult to mount on my Leica M camera bodies.

I eventually got the lens and the mount separated (it seems that a previous owner may have loktighted them together - which was another unrelated issue) and tried the adapter with other lenses.

From memory (I have since sold it) the adapter also was somewhat tight to mount when other lenses were in place. This makes sense of course as the lens should not make a difference.

And what is more, the problem persisted with each M body I tried it on (2 M3s and an M4P). So the issue clearly must be with tolerances of (or damage to) the adapter. I never noticed any damage (although I could not discount that.)

Interestingly I had other Leica adapters including another 50mm one, all of which were much less difficult to mount than this one. At the time I distinctly recall that I noted differences in appearance between them - principally that the chroming on the problematic adapter was much more shiny than the satin chrome on the others (and my impression was maybe it was a little thicker) than on all of the others.

Could this be the issue with yours????????

The lens is a M mount version but there is some evidence that it had a full and active life before making its way into my camera bag. I think that Leica's tolerances are pretty tight and it probably would not take much to knock the mount flange out enough to make it difficult to mount. My M3's may have a little wear in the lens mount, no surprise after 40+ years, that allows this lens to click in where the newer R2A is still a bit too tight.

 

[David Hughes]

You're lucky we are talking about these makes of lens and body. If it was a FED or Zorki you'd be told to throw it away and lectured on their poor quality!

Regards, David

 

[Sonnar Brian]

David, you may check the Mad Scientist forum for fixing those many FSU lenses.

If you want to get rid of any of yours, I will take them. The one on my M8 right now is made from the worst-made J-3 that I have ever seen. The front triplet of the Valdai was in crooked because the fixture was not properly machined. I transplanted a 1955 KMZ optics module into the Black J-3 focus mount, and used the front element from the Valdai to replace the scratched KMZ.

 

[David Hughes]

Sorry Brian but I'm happy with all my FSU lenses and have sold the Summar at a huge loss "for display" on ebay. Luckily I got a replacement that was "as new" in performance and can see why they loved it at the time; plus I like its "signature".

All I have now that's in the dreadful class is a "Summitar" that would make a good museum/display item to show what fungus looks like. So I keep it locked away and sealed up in a plastic bag, far from my other lenses. Heaven only knows what I'll do with it. And you should see the state of the IIIc it came with...

Regards, David

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You can take the retaining ring from an I-61 and fix it into the focus mount of the Summitar, after removing the optics module. You can screw in the optics module from a Jupiter-8 or pre-war CZJ 5cm F2 Sonnar into it: same thread size. I have a Summitar focus mount that had bad optics as well.

 

[David Hughes]

Thanks; that is very interesting and tempting...

Regards, David

PS And then I had a thought, the Sonnar is like the J-8 and so was the substitution of a Sonnar into a Leica mount the way they did it in the 30's? I have often wondered about the prices charged for Sonnars in Leica mounts in the 30's adverts.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've seen pictures of Sonnar modules put into a Summar focus mount. I've also seen custom mounts, some in heavy brass others in aluminum, made for them.

 

[David Hughes]

Interesting as I've seen advert's for them but never pictures. I'll guess the brass ones were made in the 30's.

Of course, with a FED 1 and a Jupiter 8 you can get the best of both world's; better still with the FED/KMZ reloadable Contax clone cassettes and the Contax clone universal view-finder.

But the one thing I've not seen is the electronic exposure meter they made in the old USSR in the 30's. Now that would be interesting.

Regards, David