FrankS
Registered User
I am currently watching a PBS series on Netfix called Art 21. Each episode features four 21st century artists who display and discuss their work.
I think I have discovered why I (personally) have difficulty listening to art speak (the manner in which many artists speak about their work). As a teacher, I use words as efficiently and effectively as possible to simplify, clarify and illuminate meaning to facilitate understanding. The art speak that I hear does not do this; it seems to me that it is designed/intended to construct significance, complexity, and profoundness about the art work.
Does such a thing as a plain-spoken artist exist?
I think I have discovered why I (personally) have difficulty listening to art speak (the manner in which many artists speak about their work). As a teacher, I use words as efficiently and effectively as possible to simplify, clarify and illuminate meaning to facilitate understanding. The art speak that I hear does not do this; it seems to me that it is designed/intended to construct significance, complexity, and profoundness about the art work.
Does such a thing as a plain-spoken artist exist?
ferider
Veteran
Chris Weeks ? 
Actually, there are many, just depends on personality. Robert Frank and Capa come to mind.
Actually, there are many, just depends on personality. Robert Frank and Capa come to mind.
Sparrow
Veteran
George Orwell could hold a narrative, but sadly few visual artists can ... I think their agents send them on a course somewhere
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Most photography is documentary in nature, or is made to be pretty pictures to look at (eg, flowers, sunsets, some other landscapes and wildlife). Some feel the need to puff it up as something more. It doesn't need to be. Photography's power is its ability to document, and there's nothing wrong with making art that is pretty either. Painting is a little different since its not as documentary as photography but most painting is not as deep as they want you to think. I took an art history class years ago when I was an undergrad. The professor, who had a PhD in art history and was also a painter herself, had us get a copy of the book "Why Cats Paint" as one of the texts for the class. It is a jab at abstract art's pretensions that was pretty funny.
jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
Winnogrand and Henri Cartier-Besson also come to mind. The later might be more wordy, but he is definitely humble about his photography and won't shy away from saying things that may make people feel lesser of his work.
retnull
Well-known
We expect doctors and lawyers to use a specialized language; why shouldn't artists have the right to do the same?
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
My favorite short from art 21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62-YMQHeoI
Now that's an artist I can relate to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62-YMQHeoI
Now that's an artist I can relate to
FrankS
Registered User
I would run, not walk, out of any doctor's office who could not communicate effectively with me about any medical issues I may have.
I understand that art has its own terminology.
I'll delete this thread if it gets negative. I posted because I suddenly figured it out for myself about why I have trouble with art speak.
Iassume art students learn art speak while in art school from their teachers.
I don't have the inclination to pick out quotes from the series.
benlees
Well-known
This is pretty much it. For better or for worse we live in a specialized society and language reflects this. Of course such insularity is generally a negative thing as it prevents clear communication with "non-experts". Insular language in art comes across as particularly pretentious because everybody dabbles in it at one time or another.
"Hey, if my kid can do that why are you talking like a prat?" has probably been uttered a million times, huh? Shows ignorance on both sides, I imagine. Some people communicate clearly in spite of this and others don't. Just like everything else.:angel:
Landshark
Well-known
Art speak is used to increase the importance of the work and the artist. Some may speak clearly and some just baffle 'em with BS.
In many cases, the work isn't that good, but speaking in a roundabout and confusing manner somehow justifies it.
In many cases, the work isn't that good, but speaking in a roundabout and confusing manner somehow justifies it.
Nomad Z
Well-known
For me, art speak is little more than meaningless gobbledegook. In some cases, it might have some meaning for the artist themselves, but I suspect they're using what amounts to a personal language (no outward definition of terms, no ostensive references to shareable realities). As such, it's meaningless to almost everyone else, and thus the act of indulging in it is pointless.
I've been a serious amateur musician for over 30 years, and have always written and composed. My "artist's statement" as a musician? I write music that I like. Simple as that. It's about trying to create an atmosphere using the music itself, on the premise that music elicits feelings in listeners. I write the stuff I write because I like the way it makes me feel - I like the atmosphere. No words are required to 'explain' it or tell people what it 'means'. It has no meaning, it refers to nothing, and there is no message or commentary. It is music. You listen to it, and you either engage with it or you don't. That last bit - engage with it - is the most important. The 'statement' (to stretch the definition of the term somewhat) is the art itself. If you need to have it explained to you, you still don't 'understand' it (and should check out some different art instead, or try again when your head is in a different place).
I've been a serious amateur musician for over 30 years, and have always written and composed. My "artist's statement" as a musician? I write music that I like. Simple as that. It's about trying to create an atmosphere using the music itself, on the premise that music elicits feelings in listeners. I write the stuff I write because I like the way it makes me feel - I like the atmosphere. No words are required to 'explain' it or tell people what it 'means'. It has no meaning, it refers to nothing, and there is no message or commentary. It is music. You listen to it, and you either engage with it or you don't. That last bit - engage with it - is the most important. The 'statement' (to stretch the definition of the term somewhat) is the art itself. If you need to have it explained to you, you still don't 'understand' it (and should check out some different art instead, or try again when your head is in a different place).
Cale Arthur
---- ------
Frank, there is an episode of Art21 that features an interview with Robert Ryman which was, for me, a very good answer to this question. Perhaps it will be for you as well.
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bensyverson
Well-known
In order to understand why "art speak" exists, you have to take a step back. There is a symbiotic relationship between artists, dealers, curators, collectors and critics. What you call "art speak" is the lingua franca that allows this system to function.
A collector buying an expensive photograph does not generally walk into a gallery and say "nice capture; I'll take it." Instead, they talk with a dealer, who helps contextualize the work and the artist. The dealer is able to do this because critics and curators have given the artist shows and reviews that help them contextualize the work. The up-and-coming artist needs to speak the same language in order to pitch themselves and get seen in the first place. The successful artist, however, rarely needs to say anything.
So to you, "art speak" may sound meaningless and unrelated to art, but it isn't. I guarantee that to the art world, "RFF speak" sounds just as meaningless and unrelated to art. No dealer cares what a 'cron or M3 DS is.
A collector buying an expensive photograph does not generally walk into a gallery and say "nice capture; I'll take it." Instead, they talk with a dealer, who helps contextualize the work and the artist. The dealer is able to do this because critics and curators have given the artist shows and reviews that help them contextualize the work. The up-and-coming artist needs to speak the same language in order to pitch themselves and get seen in the first place. The successful artist, however, rarely needs to say anything.
So to you, "art speak" may sound meaningless and unrelated to art, but it isn't. I guarantee that to the art world, "RFF speak" sounds just as meaningless and unrelated to art. No dealer cares what a 'cron or M3 DS is.
FrankS
Registered User
I really appreciate these responses, thanks! I understand this better now.
"...relationship between artists, dealers, curators, collectors and critics. What you call "art speak" is the lingua franca that allows this system to function."
and (paraphrased)
they may be good artists but not so good at explaining their work
"...relationship between artists, dealers, curators, collectors and critics. What you call "art speak" is the lingua franca that allows this system to function."
and (paraphrased)
they may be good artists but not so good at explaining their work
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bigeye
Well-known
TheHub
Well-known
How about William Eggleston?
bensyverson
Well-known
I hasten to add that a lot of what artists say really is gobbledygook. Unlike critics, they don't write theory and criticism for a living, so many artist's statements read more like absurdist poetry than Art Forum. Of course, artists are supposed to be kooky, so no one takes it too seriously.
It may be hard to discern at first, but there's a big difference between the goofy stuff people put in artist's statements and the language you'll encounter in respected theory and criticism.
It may be hard to discern at first, but there's a big difference between the goofy stuff people put in artist's statements and the language you'll encounter in respected theory and criticism.
maclaine
Well-known
Sometimes, getting plain speak can be too much of a good thing. One of the few times I've been disappointed with a director's commentary on a film was while watching Boogie Nights with P.T. Anderson's commentary track. He's one of my favorite film makers currently working, and his commentary was the most pointless, uninsightful, and just plain dumb things I've ever heard. It was a lot of "oh, this was ****in' cool" and "such and such an actor is such a ****in' awesome guy". I stopped it half way through and have no intention of finishing it.
FrankS
Registered User
"Does such a thing as a plain-spoken artist exist?"
Sorry for this bit of hyperbole. Certainly there are many.
Sorry for this bit of hyperbole. Certainly there are many.
maddoc
... likes film again.
I don`t think that art speak has to do with increasing the importance of the work only. It is the same with the kind of speak in my area of work, science. Of course there is always some kind of speak that is hardly understandable especially when people have no real facts to tell and make up for something.
In my opinion, art speak (or science speak) much more relies on the way how much and in which way somebody reflects about his own work.
In my opinion, art speak (or science speak) much more relies on the way how much and in which way somebody reflects about his own work.
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