menos
Veteran
I came over a sample of this lens, but it has (some minor, I suppose) issues:
- when focussing, the lens has quite some play (the front of the lens, which leaves the barrel, when focussing does have play)
- aperture ring is stiff, with aperture clicks being there, but a bit spongee feeling
- aperture blades are oily in the center 30% of the blades, when stopped down completely
- glass seems a bit dusty
Does it make sense, to make a DIY job of buying (how much should I ?), stripping, cleaning, relubing, assembly?
This would be my first total strip.
I found Brian's comment about this lens being "an rather easy job" in this thread:
http://64.38.3.147/forums/showthread.php?p=1459924
Should I buy it (how much ;-) )?
- when focussing, the lens has quite some play (the front of the lens, which leaves the barrel, when focussing does have play)
- aperture ring is stiff, with aperture clicks being there, but a bit spongee feeling
- aperture blades are oily in the center 30% of the blades, when stopped down completely
- glass seems a bit dusty
Does it make sense, to make a DIY job of buying (how much should I ?), stripping, cleaning, relubing, assembly?
This would be my first total strip.
I found Brian's comment about this lens being "an rather easy job" in this thread:
http://64.38.3.147/forums/showthread.php?p=1459924
Should I buy it (how much ;-) )?
I've not needed to take apart my 50/1.4 Nikkor SC helical. I've taken apart the optics module.
The topics module is held in with a retaining ring, visible in the rear. Most have spanner slots, but my 5cm f2 does not. I use a rubber cork, or a rubber mouse pad, to remove the retaining ring. The optics module removes easily, make sure to not lose the shim. It is a very thin brass ring. The Optics module unscrews in front of the aperture blades. The rear module also comes out, I am not looking at one- but rear should unscrew.
On relubing the Helical: I cheated on my similar Tanar 5cm f2. It, and the Nikkor, focus to 18". With the optics module out, much of the helical is exposed. SO: I flood cleaned the helical with some lighter fluid, worked the mechanism, and swabbed up the old grease. Then used some White Lithium Grease on the exposed part of the helical, worked it in. The throw on this lens is so long it worked.
The topics module is held in with a retaining ring, visible in the rear. Most have spanner slots, but my 5cm f2 does not. I use a rubber cork, or a rubber mouse pad, to remove the retaining ring. The optics module removes easily, make sure to not lose the shim. It is a very thin brass ring. The Optics module unscrews in front of the aperture blades. The rear module also comes out, I am not looking at one- but rear should unscrew.
On relubing the Helical: I cheated on my similar Tanar 5cm f2. It, and the Nikkor, focus to 18". With the optics module out, much of the helical is exposed. SO: I flood cleaned the helical with some lighter fluid, worked the mechanism, and swabbed up the old grease. Then used some White Lithium Grease on the exposed part of the helical, worked it in. The throw on this lens is so long it worked.
menos
Veteran
Thanks for the Info Brian - how would one adjust the play between the optics module and the rear mount?
The only time that I have seen play in the optics module and the focus mount: the retaining ring was loose. I tightened it using the rubber cork.
This is one of those problems where you need the lens in front of you to chase the source of the error. I would start with the retaining ring. If that is not the culprit, take the optics module out and try tightening any visible screws. Sometimes 1/4 turn on a set screw makes a huge difference.
This is one of those problems where you need the lens in front of you to chase the source of the error. I would start with the retaining ring. If that is not the culprit, take the optics module out and try tightening any visible screws. Sometimes 1/4 turn on a set screw makes a huge difference.
menos
Veteran
Thanks Brian, I guess, I have a go at it.
I do not have a Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in the parts bin, but do have a 5cm F2 in LTM. I'll take a look in the mount next weekend to see if anything pops out at me. If you take it apart, be sure to photograph it.
menos
Veteran
First I have to pick it up (if the dealer kept it), but I will make pictures.
It looks, that this one has grooves in a black retaining ring (?) in the back.
I have to find proper tools (and the right grease) before diving in.
How do I treat the aperture blades (30% from the center oily) - is a careful brush with a soft cotton swab and a drop of lens cleaning fluid ok or will I have to disassemble (this sounds like the most difficult part)?
It looks, that this one has grooves in a black retaining ring (?) in the back.
I have to find proper tools (and the right grease) before diving in.
How do I treat the aperture blades (30% from the center oily) - is a careful brush with a soft cotton swab and a drop of lens cleaning fluid ok or will I have to disassemble (this sounds like the most difficult part)?
The easiest/best way to handle the oily aperture is to remove all of the glass and flood clean it with lighter fluid. Unlike the 5cm f2 lens the rear glass of the F1.4 lens is easier to remove with a standard spanner. Ebay has many spanners for resonable amounts. So- front section of optics unscrews in front of aperture, rear glass out. Flood clean. If you swap, use a lintless cloth wrapped around a Q-Tip and be VERY gentle. It is easy to damage the aperture leaves.
menos
Veteran
Brian, jonmanjiro, thank you sooo much!
Jon, this is great info, especially so, to see the innards exposed.
I am excited, to pick up the lens. I hope, I can find the right tools as quick as possible, to have this one nice and clean before heading to Europe.
I saw in the test pictures, I took with an unknown adapter in the shop, that it doesn't focus right, which could be anything, so definitely some work there too ;-)
I see these all over the place, priced from USD 400 to 1100 on ebay.
What is a fair price for a sample, that needs work to be done?
Jon, this is great info, especially so, to see the innards exposed.
I am excited, to pick up the lens. I hope, I can find the right tools as quick as possible, to have this one nice and clean before heading to Europe.
I saw in the test pictures, I took with an unknown adapter in the shop, that it doesn't focus right, which could be anything, so definitely some work there too ;-)
I see these all over the place, priced from USD 400 to 1100 on ebay.
What is a fair price for a sample, that needs work to be done?
menos
Veteran
Ha - I picked it up and I love, how things go sometimes ;-)
The play in the lens turned out, to be very simply a slightly loose retaining ring (the black double grooved ring, holding the optics module in the lens mount).
The best thing is, that the loose barrel helped, to negotiate about the price, which came now quite a bit under the current offered auction samples.
I am overly happy!
The aperture blades are now the only thing, I have to pay attention in the short term, to have a really beautiful sample.
I will now have a look, how the lens behaves regarding focus and potential other defects.
What really amazes me, is how great the glass is in shape after so many decades.
Can you help me, to date the lens and exact model?
It is full chrome (no black aperture display),
LTM mount,
"Nikkor-S.C 1:1.4 f=5cm Nippon Kogaku Japan No.339507"
It has a infinity lock, came with a matte chrome screw on LTM rear cap (original ?), no original front cap or hood, no box, etc.
I am very eager, to find everything to know about this lens, but could not find anything substantial other than forum posts and flickr images.
For every other lens, it seems, there is a knowledge base or even some story about it's development, etc…
The nicest read about it, although short is Dante Stella's info about it in comparison with a Canon 1.4.
It might be, that after shooting, I will have a look, how to adjust possible issues.
First trial shows quite some issues with light sources in night shots at infinity (which is fairly early with this lens, as it seems).
I note these issues for now as normal, regarding it's described weakness for infinity.
It nicely coincides with my infinity test target, same as other 50mm, I use.
It seems at first, that it ever so slightly front focusses at close up (~1m), but I have to test further.
The "close focus warning bump" is a bit annoying at first ;-)
I am officially hooked now by Japanese LTM RF lenses ;-)
The play in the lens turned out, to be very simply a slightly loose retaining ring (the black double grooved ring, holding the optics module in the lens mount).
The best thing is, that the loose barrel helped, to negotiate about the price, which came now quite a bit under the current offered auction samples.
I am overly happy!
The aperture blades are now the only thing, I have to pay attention in the short term, to have a really beautiful sample.
I will now have a look, how the lens behaves regarding focus and potential other defects.
What really amazes me, is how great the glass is in shape after so many decades.
Can you help me, to date the lens and exact model?
It is full chrome (no black aperture display),
LTM mount,
"Nikkor-S.C 1:1.4 f=5cm Nippon Kogaku Japan No.339507"
It has a infinity lock, came with a matte chrome screw on LTM rear cap (original ?), no original front cap or hood, no box, etc.
I am very eager, to find everything to know about this lens, but could not find anything substantial other than forum posts and flickr images.
For every other lens, it seems, there is a knowledge base or even some story about it's development, etc…
The nicest read about it, although short is Dante Stella's info about it in comparison with a Canon 1.4.
It might be, that after shooting, I will have a look, how to adjust possible issues.
First trial shows quite some issues with light sources in night shots at infinity (which is fairly early with this lens, as it seems).
I note these issues for now as normal, regarding it's described weakness for infinity.
It nicely coincides with my infinity test target, same as other 50mm, I use.
It seems at first, that it ever so slightly front focusses at close up (~1m), but I have to test further.
The "close focus warning bump" is a bit annoying at first ;-)
I am officially hooked now by Japanese LTM RF lenses ;-)
alexnotalex
Well-known
Been following this thread with great interest.
can't wait to see the results!!
best,
Alex
can't wait to see the results!!
best,
Alex
Just off the cuff, and not looking at official records: your lens is about 1954 or so. The Serial Numbers of the LTM lenses seem to run a little behind the S-Mount. My Nikon S2's seem to have lenses in the 35xxxx range on them.
I had a hunch the retaining ring was the main culprit. On cleaning the oil off the blades, I have had good luck leaving them in place.
I had a hunch the retaining ring was the main culprit. On cleaning the oil off the blades, I have had good luck leaving them in place.
menos
Veteran
Thanks Brian, are there proper SN lists, as with Leica, to date Nikkor lenses or is this less documented?
I shot the lens Yesterday night a bit more, to find out about it's focus and over all behavior.
I used it mostly wide open, to learn about its behavior with bright, contrasty light sources and rendering during the night (my preferred scenario).
I will share photos, made with the lens when they are uploaded.
Here come a few first photos from the first toe in the water disassembly.
During shooting last night, the retaining ring ever so slightly came slightly loose again (as I didn't use a spanner, to fix it down and the mount seems to had have an oil bath along the life of the lens for cleaning/ lubing, having left the retaining ring's threads oily and therefore slippery).
It might be, that this same technician could be the source of the slightly oily aperture blades ?.
When loosening the retaining ring, the optical unit and the focussing mount are keyed through a groove in the barrel of the optical unit, which fits to a small screw in the focussing mount.
When not screwed tightly together with the retaining ring, the screw does have a slight play within the groove, leading to a slight focus error (the more up close, the more pronounced of course).
Brian, does this groove and screw normally key in without play or is indeed the retaining ring to be tightened and locked (dry thread and a slightest drop of green locktite), to prevent from this play?
If the screw should fit without play into the groove (what I suspect), i would have to source another screw, with a less rounded/ used tip, to fit more tightly (the screw can only be accessed, I suppose, when disassembling the focus mount).
The lens looks amazing to my eyes for such an old sample - only very little track marks from spanner tools, but no scratches, accidents, and alike - great
Here is a set on flickr, where I will upload more images, as soon, as I dive deeper:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/teknopunk/sets/72157626683756335/
And some pictures:
See the little screw, poking through the inner tube of the focus mount? This keys with the groove in the optics unit.
One of three set screws on the aperture ring (top in picture) and one of three set screws on the aperture display (bottom in picture).
Inscription from factory or service? What does it mean?
See the fingerprints on the black fitting? That surely was not the Japanese factory worker @ Nikon ;-)
Do not eat Big Macs, when servicing lenses - haha!
I shot the lens Yesterday night a bit more, to find out about it's focus and over all behavior.
I used it mostly wide open, to learn about its behavior with bright, contrasty light sources and rendering during the night (my preferred scenario).
I will share photos, made with the lens when they are uploaded.
Here come a few first photos from the first toe in the water disassembly.
During shooting last night, the retaining ring ever so slightly came slightly loose again (as I didn't use a spanner, to fix it down and the mount seems to had have an oil bath along the life of the lens for cleaning/ lubing, having left the retaining ring's threads oily and therefore slippery).
It might be, that this same technician could be the source of the slightly oily aperture blades ?.
When loosening the retaining ring, the optical unit and the focussing mount are keyed through a groove in the barrel of the optical unit, which fits to a small screw in the focussing mount.
When not screwed tightly together with the retaining ring, the screw does have a slight play within the groove, leading to a slight focus error (the more up close, the more pronounced of course).
Brian, does this groove and screw normally key in without play or is indeed the retaining ring to be tightened and locked (dry thread and a slightest drop of green locktite), to prevent from this play?
If the screw should fit without play into the groove (what I suspect), i would have to source another screw, with a less rounded/ used tip, to fit more tightly (the screw can only be accessed, I suppose, when disassembling the focus mount).
The lens looks amazing to my eyes for such an old sample - only very little track marks from spanner tools, but no scratches, accidents, and alike - great
Here is a set on flickr, where I will upload more images, as soon, as I dive deeper:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/teknopunk/sets/72157626683756335/
And some pictures:
See the little screw, poking through the inner tube of the focus mount? This keys with the groove in the optics unit.
One of three set screws on the aperture ring (top in picture) and one of three set screws on the aperture display (bottom in picture).
Inscription from factory or service? What does it mean?
See the fingerprints on the black fitting? That surely was not the Japanese factory worker @ Nikon ;-)
Do not eat Big Macs, when servicing lenses - haha!
menos
Veteran
Btw - I really would like to code this lens, to track my shots in Lightroom, done with the Nikkor - is there any Leica 6-bit code, that would be good to use, as it might even enhance some issues or at least not collide with the unique imaging character with the lens?
Thank you Jon Manjiro, for the tip of stopping down ;-)
Indeed this lens completely changes face from 1.4 to f2 - astonishing, how "modern" it looks @ f2 - I read somewhere, that it indeed is designed with f2 being the ideal aperture and close up performance (Dante Stella ? - I don't remember unfortunately).
I really would like to learn all the facts and stories about/ around this lens.
The shop, I bought this from actually has also a 85 f2 of same vintage (same external barrel design).
I now might be tempted, to go full hog and pick up more of these ;-)
Too bad, there are no accessories/ caps, etc available - any pointers on original accessories, provided with these Nikkors?
I am by no means a collector - could care less, but using it with the original hood, etc would be nice.
Thank you Jon Manjiro, for the tip of stopping down ;-)
Indeed this lens completely changes face from 1.4 to f2 - astonishing, how "modern" it looks @ f2 - I read somewhere, that it indeed is designed with f2 being the ideal aperture and close up performance (Dante Stella ? - I don't remember unfortunately).
I really would like to learn all the facts and stories about/ around this lens.
The shop, I bought this from actually has also a 85 f2 of same vintage (same external barrel design).
I now might be tempted, to go full hog and pick up more of these ;-)
Too bad, there are no accessories/ caps, etc available - any pointers on original accessories, provided with these Nikkors?
I am by no means a collector - could care less, but using it with the original hood, etc would be nice.
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menos
Veteran
double post
double post
double post
double post
double post
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menos
Veteran
Yes, I use a similar one (reverse conical with correct pitch).
It actually was a very nice buying experience that day - I felt like a little boy on "Schnitzeljagd".
I bought the lens i one shop, found an adapter in another, a fitting hood in another, a lens cap in another and some tools in another.
I like this kind of stuff a lot more than going in a shop, buying a digital camera in a plastic case and having to charge the battery first for using it ;-)
Btw - the LTM version looks a lot smaller in diameter than the S-mount version in your disassembly photos.
Is this my eyes or are these different designs?
menos
Veteran
Wow ! So the glass is actually a minor factor in mass of the early Nikkors !
The retaining ring should hold in on its own, but you are looking at a 60 year old lens. That is the original part. Once you get it all back, a little lacquer should on hurt it. I would try without.
Nice documentary images, Thankyou for posting them.
Nice documentary images, Thankyou for posting them.
menos
Veteran
Thanks for the info Brian!
Here is one of the photographs I did with the Nikkor-S last night.
I decided, to use it for a part of my in the works project "parallel worlds".
I do shoot cityscapes and scenes exactly the same, as my other stuff - mainly at night, exclusively handheld and without much fuss.
This is why fast lenses are mandatory (bigger in the link).
"parallel worlds" on flickr
Here is a crop, showing, what the old lens still does (I think @ f2, 1/30):
"parallel worlds" crop
menos
Veteran
Jon, this is a truly, truly beautiful machine!
I didn't know, how beautiful the Nikon RFs are inside!
I didn't know, how beautiful the Nikon RFs are inside!