Is my Leica M4-P fake?

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fuzk

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Hi all,

I bought a 2nd hand M4-P not so recently and it just occurred to me (slow, I know) to check out the serial number of my camera.

A quick search reveals that the serials of M4-Ps start with 154xxxx. Mine, however, starts with 153xxxx.

Now, the camera has served me well for the past few months, I'm just wondering if it's fake and how do I spot a fake?

Will appreciate any help. :)

Best regards,
JY
 
fuzk said:
Hi all,

I bought a 2nd hand M4-P not so recently and it just occurred to me (slow, I know) to check out the serial number of my camera.

A quick search reveals that the serials of M4-Ps start with 154xxxx. Mine, however, starts with 153xxxx.

Now, the camera has served me well for the past few months, I'm just wondering if it's fake and how do I spot a fake?

Will appreciate any help. :)

Best regards,
JY
Click to expand...
Fake? In what way, Not made by Leica Fake or just that it has a hotshoe off an m4-2?
Mine is like yours and theres a few other people on here in the same boat. Id imagine there was some error in the records on the m4-p OR that some m4-2's got upgraded.
Its still a Leica
 
There are no fake Leica M cameras. The fake Leicas are all copies of the older screwmount Leica bodies. The Russians copied them and sold them under the Fed and Zorki names as well as some they made with the Leica name as actual forgeries. There are a couple of Japanese brand names of Leica screwmount copies too, like Nicca and Tower (and one other I can't remember at the moment) and some early canon models. Those aren't really fakes, as they were never made with the Leica name on them.

No one faked the M-series Leicas. Te Chinese made a copy of the M4 in the 1960s but it really only copied the mechanical/optical parts..exterior styling is different, and if you had one, you'd be happy, as they go for outrageous prices to collectors. Only a few are known to exist. Its called the Red Flag.
 
There have been a few threads on here about this. It does happen so you can relax and enjoy your real Leica. My M4-P is the same with an M4-2 serial number.

Bob
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
There are no fake Leica M cameras. The fake Leicas are all copies of the older screwmount Leica bodies. The Russians copied them and sold them under the Fed and Zorki names as well as some they made with the Leica name as actual forgeries. There are a couple of Japanese brand names of Leica screwmount copies too, like Nicca and Tower (and one other I can't remember at the moment) and some early canon models. Those aren't really fakes, as they were never made with the Leica name on them.

No one faked the M-series Leicas. Te Chinese made a copy of the M4 in the 1960s but it really only copied the mechanical/optical parts..exterior styling is different, and if you had one, you'd be happy, as they go for outrageous prices to collectors. Only a few are known to exist. Its called the Red Flag.
Click to expand...
I suppose the worry is not that it's a fake Leica M, but that it's a run-of-the-mill model (if such a thing exists) that's been modified to look like something more desirable/valuable.
 
A very small number of Leica M bodies have been found to be fake! Not as the fake Russian ltm
I explain.

A limited number of unprofessional collectors or sellers have modified bodies like M2 to make then look like something else (MP, half frame M, expensive black paint body...).

In all instances (rare but cases exist) the idea behind the modification was to make money. The cameras are not fake but just modified...

The question now is why would someone fake an M4-P?

Fuzk your camera is not fake! Enjoy it and take a lot of pictures.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
There are no fake Leica M cameras.
Click to expand...

That's of course a rather wild statement in a world where original black paint M2s and serial 700xxx M3s sell for thousands of dollars.

(There aren't probably any fake M4-Ps around, however - mainly because there's little reason to fake them.)
 
Thank you everyone for the replies and reassurance! :)

It is my first Leica and as I'm not too well-versed in them, you can understand my nervousness when I found out that the serials don't match.

Now, as many of you have said, I'm going to start enjoying it (not that I'm not now) and start taking lots of pics! :)
 
fuzk said:
Thank you everyone for the replies and reassurance! :)

It is my first Leica and as I'm not too well-versed in them, you can understand my nervousness when I found out that the serials don't match.

Now, as many of you have said, I'm going to start enjoying it (not that I'm not now) and start taking lots of pics! :)
Click to expand...

Leica assign numbers in batches, so if they hadn't depleted the box with M4-2 numbers your M4-P could have got a late M4-2 number. But you can say that typically all M4-2 serial numbers are stamped on the right side of the hotshoe, next to the advance lever. On the M4-P typically they are stamped on the left side of the hotshoe, the side of the rewind crank.

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

I just checked and it's on the left side of the hotshoe, the side of the rewind crank. I'm not sure what that means, if it means anything at all.

It seems that mine is definitely not a unique case when it comes to this. Oh well, whatever it is, I'm going to continue to shoot with it. :)
 
If your serial # is between 1533350 and 1543351, then you are lucky to own one of the prototype M4-Ps existing..
 
Hi BobYIL,

Er.. Nope. I checked, I'm not that lucky. Probably have one that has the M4-2 hotshoe like what some of them have suggested. :)
 
250swb said:
Wow that is some serious beta testing ;) Leica did it properly in those days.

Steve
Click to expand...

If all of those serial numbers got used, then those numbers correspond to 10000 cameras. So a BIT more that just prototypes ;)

I'm pretty sure (need to check tonight) that both my M4-Ps fall into that range of serial numbers, and I don't think they are any more valuable than any other M4-Ps.
 
Leitz has closed the M4-2 series with 1533350. For the M4-P they did not start it with 1533351 but 1543351, so a new series with "154" was initiated; similar to the M4 closed with 1443170 but the next series M4-2 was started with 1480001. So I thought either his camera was a prototype (because I had no idea of his # being below 1533350) or someone has changed the accessory shoe with one from M4-2 series..
 
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