parasko
Established
Hi all,
I'm interested in buying a 28mm lens, either the Summicron or Elmarit -latest ASPH versions. Can anyone help me choose, based on the following:
1. I will be using the lens with film exclusively (M7 + Provia)
2. I shoot mainly f4-f8 outdoors/daylight for street photos plus landscapes/urbanscapes.
3. I'm not concerned about lens size but I am concerned if the lens blocks a lot of the viewfinder. Does anyone know where I can find viewfinder pics of either lens using an M7 (.72mm)?
4. I currently have a 35mm Summicron-latest version and love how this lens renders images. Does either of the 28mm lenses produce a similar look?
5. Is distortion minimal using either lens?
6. Soft edges?
Any advice or pics from either lens appreciated.
Cheers.
I'm interested in buying a 28mm lens, either the Summicron or Elmarit -latest ASPH versions. Can anyone help me choose, based on the following:
1. I will be using the lens with film exclusively (M7 + Provia)
2. I shoot mainly f4-f8 outdoors/daylight for street photos plus landscapes/urbanscapes.
3. I'm not concerned about lens size but I am concerned if the lens blocks a lot of the viewfinder. Does anyone know where I can find viewfinder pics of either lens using an M7 (.72mm)?
4. I currently have a 35mm Summicron-latest version and love how this lens renders images. Does either of the 28mm lenses produce a similar look?
5. Is distortion minimal using either lens?
6. Soft edges?
Any advice or pics from either lens appreciated.
Cheers.
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mfogiel
Veteran
You want the Elmarit ASPH then, it is small, sharp, does not block the VF, zero distortion, it is slightly more contrasty than the Summicron, and costs less than a half. Go to M mount group on flickr and have a look at the pictures. The only thing I did not like about this lens was the bokeh which can be a bit edgy, however the Summicron also has modern bokeh, just a little bit smoother. A cheaper yet alternative could be the Skopar 3.5/28 with an adapter.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Elmarit for me. Smaller, less expensive, leaves cash for additional film and processing costs.
BTW, I have an Elmarit III (with 49mm filter size), and I'm quite happy with it.
BTW, I have an Elmarit III (with 49mm filter size), and I'm quite happy with it.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I shoot with the Summicron on film. It's my favorite lens. If you don't use the hood, it doesn't block much of the viewfinder. If you do use it, it blocks a fair amount. The 35 Summilux hood works on it as well, but I'm usually not concerned with the blockage (but that's just me), so I use the 28 hood.
I think the lens has great ergonomics and makes great photos. f/2 has been very handy for the situations I shoot in. It has more distortion than the Elmarit, but it's not something I've ever seen in the pictures. It's pretty minor even if you are a chart junky. It's certainly sharp all over the frame in my experience.
If you don't ever need f/2, then by all means go with a different lens. Personally, the time I tried the 28 Elmarit ASPH, I was less thrilled with the handling that I thought I would be. For a smaller, cheaper 28, I'm happy I went with the CV 28/3.5. That lens is REALLY small and makes some great images.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. 28 is my favorite and most used focal length and I often shoot indoors, so f/2 is useful. I have pictures from the Leica and CV lens in my flickr stream.
Leica 28/2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tgray1/tags/28mm20/
CV 28/3.5:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tgray1/tags/28mm35/
I think the lens has great ergonomics and makes great photos. f/2 has been very handy for the situations I shoot in. It has more distortion than the Elmarit, but it's not something I've ever seen in the pictures. It's pretty minor even if you are a chart junky. It's certainly sharp all over the frame in my experience.
If you don't ever need f/2, then by all means go with a different lens. Personally, the time I tried the 28 Elmarit ASPH, I was less thrilled with the handling that I thought I would be. For a smaller, cheaper 28, I'm happy I went with the CV 28/3.5. That lens is REALLY small and makes some great images.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. 28 is my favorite and most used focal length and I often shoot indoors, so f/2 is useful. I have pictures from the Leica and CV lens in my flickr stream.
Leica 28/2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tgray1/tags/28mm20/
CV 28/3.5:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tgray1/tags/28mm35/
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
It's clear you need/want the Elmarit.
Cheers,
Michiel
Cheers,
Michiel
parasko
Established
Tim, I do like the look of some of those 'Cron images.
Is this lens prone to flaring? I tend not to use lens hoods.
Is this lens prone to flaring? I tend not to use lens hoods.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I don't think it's particularly flare prone, but I usually just shoot with the hood. It's nice to have the protection it provides, and it also keeps my fingers out of the frame 
The times I've shot it without the hood, I didn't get any flare/ghosting...
The times I've shot it without the hood, I didn't get any flare/ghosting...
parasko
Established
Looks like I prefer the look of the Summicron.
Does anyone have a pic showing how much of the viewfinder is blocked by the Summicron? This issue is the deciding factor for me.
Does anyone have a pic showing how much of the viewfinder is blocked by the Summicron? This issue is the deciding factor for me.
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
furcafe
Veteran
Personally, I need f/2 (would love f/1.4, but that lens doesn't exist), so the Summicron was the lens for me, but you write that you mainly shoot f/4-8, so the Elmarit should be fine for you.
I don't find that the Summicron's hood blocks the VF too much, but maybe that's me. I have found the Leica hood to be a bit flimsy, though, especially compared w/the 1 for the 35/1.4 Summilux ASPH ("old" version) which is solid as a rock, so I have recently been experiencing w/using a generic "wide" 46mm screw-in metal hood for the 28 'cron. With the screw-in hood mounted, blockage in the VF is minimal & there is no vignetting (not sure about flare prevention, yet).
I don't find that the Summicron's hood blocks the VF too much, but maybe that's me. I have found the Leica hood to be a bit flimsy, though, especially compared w/the 1 for the 35/1.4 Summilux ASPH ("old" version) which is solid as a rock, so I have recently been experiencing w/using a generic "wide" 46mm screw-in metal hood for the 28 'cron. With the screw-in hood mounted, blockage in the VF is minimal & there is no vignetting (not sure about flare prevention, yet).
parasko
Established
parasko
Established
For those of you interested in the 28mm Summicron-ASPH, I have found 2 links which show the M9 viewfinder and the extent to which the viewfinder is blocked, using this lens:
http://twitpic.com/27m6a5
http://twitpic.com/27m5i5
http://twitpic.com/27m6a5
http://twitpic.com/27m5i5
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leicashot
Well-known
Sounds like the OP is describing that he needs an Elmarit ASPH. Leica made this lens for photographers needs fitting the exact description.
I currently own the Summicron 28/2 ASPH which I love. Here is a sample.
...but I really love the V3 Elmarit, and even though people say V4 is better I am yet to see an evidence of that. I once did a quick side by side check, testing the center and corners of the V3 and V4 and could not spot the difference. I found that the V3 is as good as the Summicron from f/2.8 onwards with nice medium contrast and smooth bokeh and tones. The Elmarit ASPH is a little more harsh, but from memory has the least distortion, which I never found a problem in the pre-asph or Summicron versions.
I currently own the Summicron 28/2 ASPH which I love. Here is a sample.
...but I really love the V3 Elmarit, and even though people say V4 is better I am yet to see an evidence of that. I once did a quick side by side check, testing the center and corners of the V3 and V4 and could not spot the difference. I found that the V3 is as good as the Summicron from f/2.8 onwards with nice medium contrast and smooth bokeh and tones. The Elmarit ASPH is a little more harsh, but from memory has the least distortion, which I never found a problem in the pre-asph or Summicron versions.
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leicashot
Well-known
Go to th bottom of this page. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...44-leica-12589-vs-12466-replacement-hood.html
The new hood is very very nice, and ridiculously expensive. Very well built, strong with no rotation, and fits like a crown on a king!
kosta_g
Well-known
Fantastic shot. 28mm feels so natural
Sounds like the OP is describing that he needs an Elmarit ASPH. Leica made this lens for photographers needs fitting the exact description.
I currently own the Summicron 28/2 ASPH which I love. Here is a sample.
...but I really love the V3 Elmarit, and even though people say V4 is better I am yet to see an evidence of that. I once did a quick side by side check, testing the center and corners of the V3 and V4 and could not spot the difference. I found that the V3 is as good as the Summicron from f/2.8 onwards with nice medium contrast and smooth bokeh and tones. The Elmarit ASPH is a little more harsh, but from memory has the least distortion, which I never found a problem in the pre-asph or Summicron versions.
250swb
Well-known
The 28mm Summicron is one of Leica's very best lenses. That should be enough to make you buy if its not just down to funds. You are buying one of the Crown Jewels.
Yes it has a hood that can block a corner of the viewfinder, but you either learn like everybody else to quickly scan the scene, or leave the hood off (such is the lens resistance to flare).
I think the only other option would be the Skopar f3.5 28mm. I can't see the point of the Elmarit at all, you aren't buying the best Leica can do, so why bother even spending that much on a compromise, get the CV instead. I would rarely advocate buying the most expensive lens, I do like funny lenses with a lot of strange characteristics, but the Summicron is one to keep and hand down to the next generation, its for buying and not selling.
Steve
Yes it has a hood that can block a corner of the viewfinder, but you either learn like everybody else to quickly scan the scene, or leave the hood off (such is the lens resistance to flare).
I think the only other option would be the Skopar f3.5 28mm. I can't see the point of the Elmarit at all, you aren't buying the best Leica can do, so why bother even spending that much on a compromise, get the CV instead. I would rarely advocate buying the most expensive lens, I do like funny lenses with a lot of strange characteristics, but the Summicron is one to keep and hand down to the next generation, its for buying and not selling.
Steve
robbert
photography student
How is the Elmarit a compromise? Speedwise?
Sure, but what you get in return is a smaller lens with no finder blockage.
Light weight, and if you plan to use them @ f8 outdoors, I see no real benefit of getting a bigger, more expensive lens.
If you plan on using it alot indoors in not so good light conditions, sure, get the cron, but the elmarit is in my opinion the better choice and you get to keep some more of your money which is always nice!
edit: fwiw I've had the V4 Elmarit which is a nice lens, but since you're not cash strapped, I would get the asph since it's even smaller and the lens hood design is smaller also, which gives less finder blockage
Sure, but what you get in return is a smaller lens with no finder blockage.
Light weight, and if you plan to use them @ f8 outdoors, I see no real benefit of getting a bigger, more expensive lens.
If you plan on using it alot indoors in not so good light conditions, sure, get the cron, but the elmarit is in my opinion the better choice and you get to keep some more of your money which is always nice!
edit: fwiw I've had the V4 Elmarit which is a nice lens, but since you're not cash strapped, I would get the asph since it's even smaller and the lens hood design is smaller also, which gives less finder blockage
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leicashot
Well-known
If f/2.8 suffices, then the Elmarit is not a compromise, it's the better option for sure.
Rico
Well-known
When comparing the 28mm ASPHs, I was willing to ignore the 'cron price premium, but the Elmarit was more compelling for its smaller size, lower distortion and readable DOF scale. The speed and marginally superior MTF of the 'cron was not sufficiently important to my purchasing decision. The v2 and v3 OTOH have their own charm.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Lots of good advice on this thread. I agree -- if you don't need faster than F2.8, then the Elmarit is not a compromise.
In terms of rendering, I don't think the Elmarit is going to give you the any significant shallow DOF wide-open compared to a 35mm focal length like the 'Cron 35/2. Just an observation. I don't own a 35/2 -- yet.
Even Leicashot's 28/2 is going to give you much more OOF creaminess. Looking at his shots, I'm starting to lust after one of those lenses!
As mentioned before, it also depends on budget and the kind of look you're after. Personally, I liked the look of the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 version 4, and didn't mind the slightly larger size compared to the ASPH. It's also extremely flare resistant, so I never use a hood. Never been a problem.
The Elmarit-M 28/2.8 version 3 is also a very good lens. Prices for the v3 + v4 are reasonable but not entirely cheap. The v3 tends to be about 50-60% the price of the latest ASPH, and the v4 is about 70-80% the price of the ASPH on the used market.
Here's a shot on my M6, using cheap-o generic drugstore film, with the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 ... I love this lens.
In terms of rendering, I don't think the Elmarit is going to give you the any significant shallow DOF wide-open compared to a 35mm focal length like the 'Cron 35/2. Just an observation. I don't own a 35/2 -- yet.
Even Leicashot's 28/2 is going to give you much more OOF creaminess. Looking at his shots, I'm starting to lust after one of those lenses!
As mentioned before, it also depends on budget and the kind of look you're after. Personally, I liked the look of the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 version 4, and didn't mind the slightly larger size compared to the ASPH. It's also extremely flare resistant, so I never use a hood. Never been a problem.
The Elmarit-M 28/2.8 version 3 is also a very good lens. Prices for the v3 + v4 are reasonable but not entirely cheap. The v3 tends to be about 50-60% the price of the latest ASPH, and the v4 is about 70-80% the price of the ASPH on the used market.
Here's a shot on my M6, using cheap-o generic drugstore film, with the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 ... I love this lens.