Official Leica dealers price gouging?

digitalintrigue said:
...If a dealer put a price BELOW list, would anyone have a problem with that?? If so, then why is selling above list verboten?

Now there is one dealer, who shall remain nameless, who often advertises items as used, when they are not. Earlier this year there was a slew of ebay auctions for multiple Leica lenses that were supposedly 'used, estate sale, never mounted on a camera.' There were so many of them I was curious if buying Leica was a death sentence... :) The reason for this, is because they were selling BELOW the Leica MAP (minimum advertised price.) So they were claiming the lens to be used on the auction, but if you called them on the phone, they'd explain it was actually new, unused...a sneaky way to break MAP rules.
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Sounds familiar -- Earlier this year I bought a "used" Leica body and lens from a dealer that were revealed privately to be actually new products... about 10% below MSRP. No scalping here... should I have objected? :)
 
enochRoot said:
Maybe not. But if not, why the deception then of selling it as "used like new". Why not just mark your new stock at a higher price to reflect the current market? It's the underhanded dealings that chaps my ass.
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Well, that would make the dealer appear to only be in business for money.
 
What is the issue? Isn't a free marketplace just that. All of you should be objecting to companies setting anything but the wholesale pricing. After that, new and used gear sell for what the market will bear. That means high prices if that is what consumers are willing to pay.
 
I'm not objecting in any way...I do find it interesting to see dealers break agreements or find sneaky work-arounds.
 
Doug said:
Sounds familiar -- Earlier this year I bought a "used" Leica body and lens from a dealer that were revealed privately to be actually new products... about 10% below MSRP. No scalping here... should I have objected? :)
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No of course not. :)

A dealer can sell at any price they want...it's the 'advertised' price that is part of the dealer agreement. If they actually posted an ad at below MAP, that is a violation of their dealer agreement. If someone walks in the store, and says how much for an M9 and they discount it, that's not a violation.

This is why online stores will show pricing below MAP only after it has been added to the shopping cart...this is acceptable under the terms of the dealer agreement.
 
bwcolor said:
What is the issue? Isn't a free marketplace just that. All of you should be objecting to companies setting anything but the wholesale pricing. After that, new and used gear sell for what the market will bear. That means high prices if that is what consumers are willing to pay.
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A free market is one in which government does not regulate excessively. It has nothing to do with manufacturers setting prices, which is their right.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
A free market is one in which government does not regulate excessively. It has nothing to do with manufacturers setting prices, which is their right.
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You can define it that way and the lack of a heavy handed government is a vital feature if markets are to be "free", but in the U.S., we have the government bringing anti-trust suits against private corporations that monopolize a particular market. I don't have a problem with companies restricting the advertised price of an item, but I do have a problem with selling a product to a retailer then dictating the end user price. That restricts the market and in my view has a good bit to do with a free market. Of course, a company like Leica is so small that it has little to do with anything. There is barely a market for Leica's products.
 
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So how about DigitalREV selling WAYYY above list on ebay?

When was the last time you saw an advertised new 35 Summicron ASPH for under $3k?

Adorama has been selling demo stock in their used department for way above list.
 
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leicashot said:
So how about DigitalREV selling WAYYY above list on ebay?
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What's there to discuss? The skyrocketing prices of Leica gear sucks for people who want a good deal, but from a business perspective, you cannot blame DigitalRev or any other company that is selling the gear for over MRSP. Running a business is about making money, not doing "what is right."

Unfortunately, many private sellers have followed suit, but again, you really can't blame them. What's happening isn't illegal.

The key is to be a smart buyer. Wait for the right deals to come along - they always do. In some cases, it might take a long time for the right deal to come along, but if you don't want to pay the inflated prices, you just have to wait it out.
 
The market will determine the price - nothing else. List prices are usually suggested prices, not mandatory. Cameras are no different than any other industrial commodity. Car dealers do this all the time with popular models incidentally. Recently we've seen this happen with iPhones, and similar digital gadgets. These are luxury goods sold to wealthy buyers who will pay as necessary.

For buyers of modest means, we can only hope some of the Leica compatible makers such as Cosina will notice the money being made and jump back into the market with some new and innovative products at more modest prices. If so, it works out well for everyone.
 
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Interesting how people are in favour of a free market when it makes things cheaper, but against it when it makes things more expensive.

Yes, "Resale Price Maintenance" aka "Retail Price Maintenance", abolished many years ago in the UK, meant that you didn't get the discounts, but also that the dealers had to compete on things like stock and (gasp) service. In many ways, it was somewhat akin to "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay": it was far less of a treadmilll, and there was less dog-eat-dog. I'm not convinced that RPM was entirely a bad thing.

And at least Leica dealers are selling something tangible and of value, unlike financial derivatives dealers and currency speculators. Time for a Tobin tax?

Cheers,

R.
 
For a luxury brand like Leica it is probably much more important that the dealers do no sell under the Leica adviced price. Leica has a strong brand name and do not want it to be destroyed by fire sale prices.....

As always it is not free marked/regulations that is bad or good, it is low prices is good, high is bad.
 
leicashot said:
So what is Leica's policy about selling online? Does anyone know?
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They can sell online such as on their store site but can't advertise below MAP

They can sell on Amazon under the same rules

They cannot sell in eBay at all

They cannot sell overseas, either
 
Harley Davidson had to deal with this problem for years............many dealers sold new HD's for thousands over list and HD Corp hated it but as David said its a free market and eventually it usually balances out.
 
As the old saying goes, 'vote with your feet.' I've noted from keh catalogs that their turnover dropped substantially when they boosted prices.

And if you really object to leica pricing, go buy voigtlander or zeiss where they have alternatives.
 
Many years ago, I wrote on another photography website that Adorama and B&H seem to fix the same prices. That's all I said. I was contacted by one of these two store managers about what I have written. The manager was furious about it, and he demanded that I removed my thread immediately.
 
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