Hex 50 focussing on M3

[daveywaugh]

I know the issue of Konica lenses on Leica (and other way around) have been discussed ad-nauseum, but I have a problem I'd appreciate your help with.

My M3 and Hex 50 f2 have come back from Sherry after a full-on CLA and repair (about $800 worth). She has done a really fantastic job - the M3 is great, looks a million bucks, and she also adjusted the Hex to focus at 0.7m.

The problem however is that it's come back and the lens is back-foccusing quite badly. Not just at 0.7 either (which I understand is perhaps out of M3 'spec') but also at 1m and 2m. Tested on a tripod and it's been consistent over 3 test rolls. It was certainly focussing perfectly at 1m when I sent it away but now it's unusable. Unfortunately I don't have another lens to test.

Sherry hasn't responded yet, and it's been quite a while, so I thought I'd ask you good folks ;-)

Could it be the adjustment in camera, damage to the lens in transit? I just don't know if it's the lens, camera or both. I am guessing there is no way to determine the culprit until I get another lens to test I guess right?

Any ideas, or testing methods appreciated. I did try to measure focus point with lens set to 1m using a tape measure and it seems OK but then that's hardly accurate...

Thank you in advance. I am gutted to have a heavy paperweight at the moment...

 

[johannielscom]

I know the issue of Konica lenses on Leica (and other way around) have been discussed ad-nauseum, but I have a problem I'd appreciate your help with.

My M3 and Hex 50 f2 have come back from Sherry after a full-on CLA and repair (about $800 worth). She has done a really fantastic job - the M3 is great, looks a million bucks, and she also adjusted the Hex to focus at 0.7m.

The problem however is that it's come back and the lens is back-foccusing quite badly. Not just at 0.7 either (which I understand is perhaps out of M3 'spec') but also at 1m and 2m. Tested on a tripod and it's been consistent over 3 test rolls. It was certainly focussing perfectly at 1m when I sent it away but now it's unusable. Unfortunately I don't have another lens to test.

Sherry hasn't responded yet, and it's been quite a while, so I thought I'd ask you good folks ;-)

Could it be the adjustment in camera, damage to the lens in transit? I just don't know if it's the lens, camera or both. I am guessing there is no way to determine the culprit until I get another lens to test I guess right?

Any ideas, or testing methods appreciated. I did try to measure focus point with lens set to 1m using a tape measure and it seems OK but then that's hardly accurate...

Thank you in advance. I am gutted to have a heavy paperweight at the moment...

How bad is the back focus exactly when your testing method gets you 'OK' results? Are we talking half an inch or three inches here? These two remarks get me confused!

Anyway, here's an approach:


First thing would be to test it at 1 meter, wide open.

• Set the camera on a sturdy tripod.
• Measure the distance, 1 meter from the film plane straight in front of the lens center. Do not put the lens on a tripod and measure 1 meter on the ground, because the angle will actually make for a longer distance than 1 meter to the cameras film plane!
• Remove the back door from the camera, tape some matte scotch tape over the film rails at the back, taut.
• Set the camera back on that sturdy tripod.
• Set the shutter speed to 'B' and cock the camera.
• Set the lens focussed to the 1 meter mark using the RF.
• Now, fire the shutter, keep it open and check wether the image projected on the scotch tape has an identical focus point. Use a loupe.

Repeat the test with the lens at infinity. Very likely that DOF will cover any misfocus there but it should be checked nevertheless.

If you want to, you can repeat the test also for a focus point at 2.5 mtrs.

If focus point in the RF and on the scotch tape agree, your previous testing method has been a flawed one and no issue remains. If there still is a difference to be seen in the focus points, I'd shoot some test pictures using the above method, contact Sherry, describe your testing method and outcome and if she requests so, you can send her the prints of your shots along with the lens and M3.

Good luck!

 

[bwcolor]

Interesting... I had two M-Hex lenses backfocusing on my M3 and Sherry told me that she doesn't do that kind of work. Maybe she was busy. Used her to great results on other work. Sent lens to Don and once I was gray and old, he got it back to me in great working order and the M3 was then focusing to .7M and the M-Hex 50 f/1.2 and 90 f/2.8 were champs. My M-Hex 50 f/2.0 seems to be doing just fine, but maybe I should take another look.

Good luck. I'm sure that Sherry will sort it out. She is beyond honest and really stands behind her work.

 

[Moriturii]

How bad is the back focus exactly when your testing method gets you 'OK' results? Are we talking half an inch or three inches here? These two remarks get me confused!

Anyway, here's an approach:


First thing would be to test it at 1 meter, wide open.

• Set the camera on a sturdy tripod.
• Measure the distance, 1 meter from the film plane straight in front of the lens center. Do not put the lens on a tripod and measure 1 meter on the ground, because the angle will actually make for a longer distance than 1 meter to the cameras film plane!
• Remove the back door from the camera, tape some matte scotch tape over the film rails at the back, taut.
• Set the camera back on that sturdy tripod.
• Set the shutter speed to 'B' and cock the camera.
• Set the lens focussed to the 1 meter mark using the RF.
• Now, fire the shutter, keep it open and check wether the image projected on the scotch tape has an identical focus point. Use a loupe.

Repeat the test with the lens at infinity. Very likely that DOF will cover any misfocus there but it should be checked nevertheless.

If you want to, you can repeat the test also for a focus point at 2.5 mtrs.

If focus point in the RF and on the scotch tape agree, your previous testing method has been a flawed one and no issue remains. If there still is a difference to be seen in the focus points, I'd shoot some test pictures using the above method, contact Sherry, describe your testing method and outcome and if she requests so, you can send her the prints of your shots along with the lens and M3.

Good luck!

This is a very interesting method of testing focus, would you mind showing us some pictures too because I think it's good enough to warrant pictures and people can pass this info around.

Would this also work with a Konica Hexar RF? I'd imagine so yes?

Cheaper then wasting a roll of film innit?

Thanks!

 

[daveywaugh]

Thanks very much for the replies. buzzard kid: that's a great testing method. Will do so today. I can however say my methods aren't 'flawed' as I shot about 100 shots from a tripod focussing at varying distances and ALL are backfoccussed - something is certainly wrong ;-) No special testing can hide that fact!

I have to be honest and say I am disappointed in the Leica - I have 'wasted' about $2.5K on one camera and lens and it can't focus... I just can't believe it would have left Sherry untested. If it was perfect when it left her (and I do trust her), then how could it get to this state? I guess RFers are fragile beasts. I do love the M3 though... I have just only ever had problems with RFs... R3A had to be repaired every six month for various issues, and I just assumed the M3 would work great after a CLA. The only RF that has never failed on me is a Contax G1... mmm...

Trouble is I use my cameras in a professional capacity at times and I really would love a perfect M3. In the end, I might have to risk it and buy another lens.

 

[bwcolor]

Not many fifty year old cameras are used on a regular basis, but the M3 can be one of them. I do think that mechanical rangefinders are somewhat delicate mechanisms, but they have been time proven with many people. I have two M3s and they work great, without a problem. Talk to Sherry and she will let you know what she thinks. She has the experience to give you a valid opinion. I love my M3s.

 

[daveywaugh]

Good point bwcolour... I do love the M3 too and I want to persevere... trouble is I am in Australia and if I need to get it to Sherry again I am without the camera for another two months. I just can't afford it really. Still awaiting to hear from Sherry, but it's only been a week so I'll wait another week before I decide what to do.

 

[Keith]

That's a bummer Davey and I can imagine it must be very frustrating.

Sending cameras OS for work is both expensive and nerve wracking in my experience ... if only we had some techs in this country with the sorts of skills DAG and Sherry have it would be much simpler. We are such an outpost in this regard due to our small population.

Good luck.

 

[johannielscom]

How about testing the camera with a borrowed lens? That way you would at least know what part is the culprit.

 

[Justin Viiret]

daveywaugh, whereabouts in Oz are you? If you're in/near Sydney, we could catch up for a drink and check your lens on my cameras and vice versa.

Alternatively, perhaps there's a dealer nearby who'd be able to lend/rent you another lens for half a day? It'd be nice to eliminate either the camera or lens as the issue if possible.

 

[daveywaugh]

How about testing the camera with a borrowed lens? That way you would at least know what part is the culprit.

Yes you're right of course. Until I can source another lens I am in the dark (and wasting everyone's time!) I think it will mean buying something 'cheapish' like a Voigtlander 75 f2.5. I can always sell it without a huge loss if it doesn't work for me. I literally don't know anyone with any M mount lens so borrowing isn't an option.

Keith: totally agree. It would be great to have a really top tech somewhere here in Australia. Life would be easier ;-) Thanks.

 

[daveywaugh]

daveywaugh, whereabouts in Oz are you? If you're in/near Sydney, we could catch up for a drink and check your lens on my cameras and vice versa.

Alternatively, perhaps there's a dealer nearby who'd be able to lend/rent you another lens for half a day? It'd be nice to eliminate either the camera or lens as the issue if possible.

Nice offer Justin - thanks. I am in Armidale and don't get to Sydney enough though ;-) Appreciate the offer anyway. I know Mainline had a good deal on the VC75 so I might just bite the bullet. Alternatively I might just do a 'business trip' to Sydney for a day and go camera window shopping - then it would be great to catch up.

 

[ferider]

Very likely Sherry tested you camera with a Leica lens.

From my experience with Hexanon lenses your camera/lens combo is off by a constant at all distances. Easy to fix DIY by adjusting infinity alignment of your camera with a screwdriver. Go out at night, check if the RF is aligned at infinity, by focusing on a star. If not, adjust it. I bet that will fix it.

The reality of M-lenses is that they are not all truly compatible.

Roland.

 

[bwcolor]

Try calling her if you can't get her by Email. I believe that I had better luck on the telephone.

 

[daveywaugh]

The 50 hex is a great lens. I wish I would had kept mine. I sold it right before the bump in prices too.

Yeah I love the hex too. It just kind of does everything well and feels well built. Nice to know you never had issues on the M3.

Thanks everyone for your advice - will let you know how I get on.

 

[daveywaugh]

Just a quick updated. Finally heard from Sherry who basically said send it to another tech for adjustment or send it back to me. I am a little disappointed because I would have assumed that she tested the camera with my lens as part of the CLA (particularity as I requested calibration for .7m).

I have called two Leica techs in Australia this morning and both have stated that she would have only tested the camera to 'Leica specifications' ie. with a Leica lens. They also both categorically said that Hexanon lenses are not 100% compatible with an M body and seemed unsurprised that it focussed incorrectly. They did say however that it could be calibrated properly but then other lenses would be 'off'. Is this correct?

So I must have been 'lucky' that the M3 originally focussed accurately but once it was 'fixed' by Sherry it's now back-focussing. So do I sell the Hex and buy a Leica (plus sell an organ or two) or get it calibrated again? I feel like I am throwing money away but do really like the Hex - it just seems like a great all-round lens.

Alternatives could be a Zeiss sonnar or planar but could I be assured thy would focus? Any advice appreciated - sorry for the hassle!

Thanks.

 

[ferider]

Since you only have a single lens, calibrate the camera yourself, it's trivial and reversible. See post #13.

 

[Keith]

Strange I had a 50mm Hex and don't recall any focusing problems on my M8 or any other M ... not to say it never happened, maybe I just never noticed!

If you decide on a Zeiss get the Planar ... the C Sonnar has focus shift issues all on it's own!

 

[daveywaugh]

Thanks for all the advice - tried focus at infinity test and it seems fine. I've had a few other suggestions also via PM and will give them a go. Anyway, appreciate all the advice and help. Thanks. Good learning exercise if nothing else! ;-)