Erwin Puts on the X100

[Adanac]

You can minimize any lag to the point where it doesn't matter. Pre-focused, the X100 has practically no shutter lag, certainly none worth talking about.

My X100 is almost always set to Manual Focus mode; press AFL to focus on the target, employ the autofocus, twist lens focus ring if necessary to fine tune (generally for eyes or macro, little else), recompose if necessary and shoot when the moment is right. Zone focus is easy to achieve. I also turn off image review and the shooting experience becomes even more rangefinder like as the optical viewfinder is never obscured.

If a X200 ever comes around with the ability to take interchangeable lenses but even more importantly, will allow me to use the manual focus lenses (via adaptors) I already own, I'll be buying one.

 

[Richard G]

I have not been troubled by shutter lag, but certainly best with the X100 to have it focussed and even better, have the focus locked. A Leica user has the requirement for a close equivalent to the familiar shutter lag of the Leica, or he needs to practice the new system. There is a type of camera with a mirror that must move out of the light path to the film plane and these have some built in shutter lag. There have been a number of quite good photographs taken with such cameras. Those who use them exclusively do not keep a rangefinder at all, and yet these photographers have been successful, publishing good work, even photographs of children, marrying, and having children of their own. The 'anticipation' required for success with that SLR system is not a choice. It is a neurophysiological phenomenon enhanced by practice akin to fielding bad hops at baseball, ingeniously edging with a cricket bat the turning ball to slips or playing a winning volley of a tennis ball that deviated in the last meter of its trajectory after clipping the net. Formula 1 racing car drivers and elite basketballers all owe some of their success to this capacity. So do sports photographers, who use SLR/DSLRs exclusively. The fact is the Leica shooter is already making use of it too. It is simply that the delay has a shorter duration.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If you have time to anticipate something than you have time to focus and wait for the situation and then press the shutter.

No way... If you photograph things that don't change or move, I agree... But for those of us photographing vanishing scenes, shutter lag is the worst problem. Fractions of a second are a problem...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Jamie Pillers]

In a way, this is the ultimate review for our era, in my opinion of course. He's basically saying that no matter what gear I'm using, I need to learn how to use it within its limitations; whether it be a M3 or Canon P&S. And I think he's saying something along the lines of "get out there and make pictures... stop complaining about the gear!" And the proof is all around us. The web is filled with great images taken with cheap gear and awful images taken with great gear (and vise versa of course) 🙂

 

[gho]

What I find interesting is the notion of incorporating the imperfections of a technical process and to take it as an advantage. To me the idea of trying to produce the best result within some given limitations clearly makes sense. Now, shutter lag is not a limitation that I like in photography, because the moment is certainly an important component in taking a photograph, at least to me and why should I bother my mind with anticipating a moment on a ms scale - in addition to the usual anticipation - if there are solutions with other limitations that provide presumably more creative potential.

 

[Paddy C]

But you were talking about anticipation. Let's take this example: you see a man in front of a puddle and you instantly know he will jump over it. You take the camera and prefocus and wait. He jumps, you press the shutter and because the most time consuming action (=focussing) is already done you get your decisive moment. This is anticipation to me. This works with the x100 but not with a Canon G10 because the G10 has a significant shutter lag, even when prefocussed.

But if you want to capture a photo of the man at the apex of his jump (a very specific moment) and you have noticeable shutter lag you will have sort of guess when to press the shutter. I think that's what Juan is getting at.

 

[gho]

But you were talking about anticipation. Let's take this example: you see a man in front of a puddle and you instantly know he will jump over it. You take the camera and prefocus and wait. He jumps, you press the shutter and because the most time consuming action (=focussing) is already done you get your decisive moment. This is anticipation to me.

For me it is like this. If I want to take a photograph of something like this, the camera has to be set up for it before the event occurs. Usual technique: scale focussing. In the process of the event unfolding there is something like a subjective experienced apex. The art is to press the shutter at exactly that time point and shutter lag will ad, well, some lag. And fractions of a second do matter indeed.

For example this photo:

Here the position of the feet was important to me. With a distinctive shutter lag, I would have missed it.

 

[semilog]

How long do you folks think it takes a nerve impulse to traverse your optic tectum, be processed into a decision to fire, for the impulse to travel down your motorneurons, cause the muscle in your index finger to retract, and to fire the shutter? Answer: many, many milliseconds. Probably a couple of hundred, up to 500 ms, for the average person.

Think it doesn't make a difference? My cat can catch flies on the wing, usually first try, with her tiny little paw. It HELPS to have short motorneurons. The signals get to the muscle faster! The only way I can do it is by anticipating.

You are ALREADY anticipating. If you were not, you'd miss ANY fast-moving shot. The guy jumping in the air has already landed. The key, then, is not lack of lag, but absolutely predictable lag. It's variation in shutter lag that makes a camera impossible to use in dynamic situations.

The variation in lag among professional cameras, digital or mechanical, is a rounding error compared to the cumulative lag built into your eye, brain, motorneurons, and muscles.

And yeah, with a prefocused X100 it's claimed to be 10 milliseconds. With the M9, it's closer to 80 milliseconds. That doesn't seem to be a problem for competent photographers.

 

[Richard G]

Semilog has it. Obviously no-one on this page read my post above because it was too long. Think about great sports photographs: they're all taken on SLRs. Anticipation is not voluntary, it's built in. The RFFer with a Tele-Elmar next to the Sports Illustrated guy with his big white lens fired the shutter later because the lag is shorter. The pro doesn't choose to fire sooner, his nervous system is preprogrammed to do it for him, from multiple sessions of feedback of mirror slap, VF blackout and lousy shots past the peak of the action when he was starting out. THIS IS A NON-PROBLEM. Except when using unfamiliar equipment.

 

[Ross]

Shutter lag? Shmutter lag.

Most importantly I want to know what

"or as Goethe has immortalized: Himmelhoch jauchzend, zum Tode betrübt."

means in English, as I have no German. I can see heaven and death there, but no more.

Thanks to German speakers.

 

[rxmd]

Shutter lag? Shmutter lag.

Most importantly I want to know what

"or as Goethe has immortalized: Himmelhoch jauchzend, zum Tode betrübt."

means in English, as I have no German. I can see heaven and death there, but no more.

Thanks to German speakers.

Literally "in heavenly joy, in deathly despair". It's a passage from Goethe's drama Egmont, sung by the protagonist's mistress and summing up her emotional uproar about him. You can find a better English translation on http://www.bartleby.com/19/3/32.html (the passage beginning with "Blissful and Tearful").

It's become sort of a fixed phrase for extreme conflicting emotions lived out to both extremes at the same time.

 

[willie_901]

I feel compelled to mention the X100 (along with many other cameras) can fire off a burst of either 3 frames per sec or 5 frames per sec. Obviously the actual FPS depends on the shutter speed. Up to 10 jpegs or 8 RAW images can be recorded. The focus and exposure of the first picture is used for all the pictures.

This makes shutter lag moot in some situations and anticipation becomes less risky.

 

[M4streetshooter]

Shutter lag....hmmmmm
When I start to frame an image, it's in my mind before the camera is raised....then...the finger starts to 1/2 press and when the eye is seeing thru the finder, the finger decides to release.
The eye, contrary to popular belief is not the organ of photography. The finger is. So I don't ever get shutter lag with any camera, what I have sometimes is Brain Lag.

 

[gavinlg]

In this thread: multiple people confusing shutter lag with AF speed.

 

[Jamie Pillers]

Amounts to the same thing though, wouldn't you say? Either causes one to miss the shot, right?

 

[Jeff Charles]

X100 shutter lag and focus lag

X100 shutter lag and focus lag

Amounts to the same thing though, wouldn't you say? Either causes one to miss the shot, right?

It helps to understand how the X100 works:

• In bright light, focus lag decreases and shutter lag increases
• In poor light, focus lag increases and shutter lag decreases

With most cameras, shutter lag in independent of the brightness of the scene. That means that if you have prefocused, there is usually minimal total lag. The X100, however, on half press in bright light, does something that has been labeled the "aperture dance", in which it repositions its aperture blades prior to triggering the shutter. I've measured the lag caused by this "dance" at about 0.7 seconds.

So, while focus lag can be eliminated by prefocusing, using either MF or AF and the AFL button, the only way to eliminate bright-light shutter lag is to half press in anticipation of the shot.

That is a usable technique in most situations, but not for quick grab shots where subject movement is a factor.

Jeff

 

[mrware]

But you were talking about anticipation. Let's take this example: you see a man in front of a puddle and you instantly know he will jump over it. You take the camera and prefocus and wait. He jumps, you press the shutter and because the most time consuming action (=focussing) is already done you get your decisive moment. This is anticipation to me. This works with the x100 but not with a Canon G10 because the G10 has a significant shutter lag, even when prefocussed.

Henri Cartier-Bresson had the luxury of many takes on his man over puddle shot as I remember reading somewhere, but I do see your point. But in the end it's a question mastering your equipment, with some equipment being more suited to a certain quality than others.

 

[dogbunny]

I didn't read the whole thread, just parts, but honestly what is the difference between an optimized X100--with the best card and all of that, and a slightly middle-aged hand on an M, shutter click to film advance? How fast are these Quick Draw McGraws?

only partially facetious. Looking at the reality of practice.

DB

 

[jsrockit]

I'll never know what he said about the X100 because his website sucks for actual reading.

 

[jsrockit]

I didn't read the whole thread, just parts, but honestly what is the difference between an optimized X100--with the best card and all of that, and a slightly middle-aged hand on an M, shutter click to film advance? How fast are these Quick Draw McGraws?

Zone focusing a M is going to be very quick. I think this is what X100 haters are comparing the X100 to.