M9 / M9P sapphire cover .. easy upgrade ??

[Wobba]

The main benefit of the M9P over the M9 (particularly for those that want black) is the sapphire LCD cover. Is there a reason why Leica don't just offer the sapphire cover as a spare/accessory?

Replacing the LCD cover is a piece of cake since it is fitted to the outside of the LCD housing and simply held in place by a light application of adhesive (see image below showing M8 with LCD cover removed - M9 will be the same).

 

[Jeff S]

One option in the new M9 upgrade program involves change to a sapphire LCD screen. For $1295, one also gets a new covering and an extra year warranty from registration date.

Part of the reason for the high cost, as I understand it, is that they need to disassemble the camera. Don't know why, but that's the process.

Jeff

 

[Wobba]

One option in the new M9 upgrade program involves change to a sapphire LCD screen. For $1295, one also gets a new covering and an extra year warranty from registration date.

Part of the reason for the high cost, as I understand it, is that they need to disassemble the camera. Don't know why, but that's the process.

Jeff

My camera is only a few months old and in perfect condition and I have no need for a new covering nor extra warranty.

The sapphire crystal LCD cover is the only element in the upgrade that interests me. It couldn't cost more than a $100 or so to supply. And, as far as I can tell, it is fitted externally and replacing it does not require disassembly (as shown in the image I have attached). Have I missed something?

 

[Wobba]

My local Leica Service centre is an agent and they are telling me that the upgrade to sapphire involves replacing the LCD module and needs to be carried out by Leica in Germany. I have inspected an M8 with the old cover removed and I see no reason why this would be the case. I was looking for feedback from the more learned forum members on whether this is the case.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

As Sapphire is so hard, and scratch resistent, it is possible that Leica cements it to the LCD during the manufacturing process. This is true of Kodak CCD's: Some have the cover glass cemented in place during the manufacturing process, others (used to be the same family), had the cover glass on the CCD using adhesive. I've read of people having the plastic cover fallig off, but NEVER the Sapphire glass.

http://www.rayotek.com/techincal_info_glass_sapphire.htm

I cannot find anyone that sells a sapphire window large enough for the M8/M9. Thor Labs sells 1/2" and 1" round sapphire windows, $59 for the 1".

Personally, I went with the Giotti glass covers at $22 each. If you could find who cuts the glass for Leica, maybe you could get one. If it were inexpensive, I would have expected Giotti or someone like them to supply the window.

http://www.thorlabs.com/NewGroupPage9.cfm?ObjectGroup_ID=3982

 

[Archlich]

My camera is only a few months old and in perfect condition and I have no need for a new covering nor extra warranty.

The sapphire crystal LCD cover is the only element in the upgrade that interests me. It couldn't cost more than a $100 or so to supply. And, as far as I can tell, it is fitted externally and replacing it does not require disassembly (as shown in the image I have attached). Have I missed something?

Simple truth: even if they could, they won't. Profit is of top priority, especially for Leica.

Why should they supply you a $100 cover when they could charge you $1295?

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Again- other companies sell covers for LCD screens on cameras. If there was a market for an easy do-it-yourself scratch-proof Sapphire glass screen cover, Giotto or someone else would sell it. They don't, they sell multi-coated glass covers using Schott glass.

At $59 for a 1" round Sapphire cover window, I'm going to guess that a 2" by 3" cover is going to be more costly.

 

[Jeff S]

Have I missed something?

Yes, the real facts. I suggest you call Leica.

Jeff

 

[tele_player]

I wouldn't expect facts from the people who bring us small batteries for $130 and molded rubber lens caps for $40. Leica has no compunctions against gouging its credulous fanbase.

Yes, the real facts. I suggest you call Leica.

Jeff

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Thor Labs charges $59 for a Sapphire glass cover (fact) that is ~0.75 Square-inches (fact), and a Sapphire glass cover for the M8/M9 is more like 4 square-inches (fact). Assuming the charge is based on the area (Not a fact, loose assumption, growing larger crystals is difficult and cost usually increases more than just surface area), the cost of the cover glass would be ~$300.

There is a reason why Giotto uses Schott glass and not Sapphire. It's expensive.

 

[RobVinc]

Brian,

I think these sapphire glasses are just glasses with an sputtered layer of Al2O3, which makes the surface very hard..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire#Transparent_and_tough

 

[Beemermark]

What I don't understand is why Leica didn't use the Sapphire window from the beginning. They had already put it on the M8.2 so it would have been logically to include it on the M9 introduction.

 

[Jeff S]

I wouldn't expect facts from the people who bring us small batteries for $130 and molded rubber lens caps for $40. Leica has no compunctions against gouging its credulous fanbase.

My comment relates to the OP's comments about the process, not the cost per se, i.e., about the need to disassemble the camera.

One can always choose to not buy the product. For me, it's about value, not cost...two different things. I've gotten fantastic value from Leica M cameras and lenses for 30 years or so. And I don't always buy the latest version, just because it's there; rather, I buy based on my own needs and preferences. YMMV.

Jeff

 

[Jeff S]

What I don't understand is why Leica didn't use the Sapphire window from the beginning. They had already put it on the M8.2 so it would have been logically to include it on the M9 introduction.

In part, I suppose, because of the cost and subsequent price impact. That would be consistent with the high cost for upgrade. I suspect that the assembly process was also taken into account. Again, this lends credence to Leica's comments about having to disassemble the camera for upgrade. Only Leica knows for sure.

I'm far more curious about the decision to revert to 1m frame lines on the M9. I think the 2m frame lines on the M8.2 are the best (for my shooting distances) on any M I've used over the last 30 years.

Jeff

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've never handled an M8.2, or M9P with Sapphire glass, not sure how they did it.
I had a friend with a vacuum deposition chamber that made diamond windows, but it was shut down a while ago and he moved on to a new job. That would have been cool- a Diamond Giotto screen.

Zinc Selenide windows were very expensive. The Window that we had was about $50,000- and you could not even see through it.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I wouldn't expect facts from the people who bring us small batteries for $130 and molded rubber lens caps for $40. Leica has no compunctions against gouging its credulous fanbase.

Nor do they have many compunctions about charging a realistic price for limited-production products. They don't really care about the people who whinge about new prices; don't pay them; and insult those who do, calling them 'credulous'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

http://www.sapphirewindows.com/

But...

If all they are doing is sputtering a layer of Al2O3 on it, why not just buy a Glass Cover and call up a sputtering service to have it coated?

http://www.sputteringmaterials.com/products.html

 

[jaapv]

My camera is only a few months old and in perfect condition and I have no need for a new covering nor extra warranty.

The sapphire crystal LCD cover is the only element in the upgrade that interests me. It couldn't cost more than a $100 or so to supply. And, as far as I can tell, it is fitted externally and replacing it does not require disassembly (as shown in the image I have attached). Have I missed something?

Yes- a business opportunity to undercut Leica...🙄

 

[Sonnar Brian]

What I find interesting: Leica is the only company to offer Sapphire glass LCD covers.

It's a great idea, I wonder why Giotto and others do not offer them for Nikon and Canon DSLR's. I've seen a 3-day old D2x with a smashed LCD from a careless wedding guest.

 

[Jeff S]

Yes- a business opportunity to undercut Leica...🙄

My comment that he should apply for a job got deleted...and I didn't even roll my eyes. Perhaps I should have alluded to the entrepreneurial route instead.

Jeff