Sieff and the 21

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redisburning

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I was hoping someone could point me to some JL Sieff pictures taken with a 21mm lens on 35mm, but involving one human being and not landscape or obviously done for effect.

I like what he does but many of his shots look so undistorted (I mean, relation of size of things given closeness to shooter and not distortion on the edges because of the lens) that I am not sure they were really taken with such a wide lens. I know he also did some shots with a blad and presumably a less wide lens. these are shots with a subject mainly parallel to the film plane that I am interested in.

I ask because I am considering a future purchase of a 21mm, partly due to said photographer. I never really considered this to be a natural looking lens to photograph people with, and I realize there is great challenge in making people look natural with this focal length so that is why I ask, so that I may study the pictures.

I realize some may be NSFW.
 
NSVW would be "not so very wide"........ But I Googled NSFW and see that it is "not safe for work". An excellent point. Meanwhile just Google Jeanloup Sieff and click Images top left. The first hit gives a good selection. Many clearly are indeed as wide as 21. The surrounding architecture is a give away. Properly placed, the figure is not distorted.
 
Here are two examples of Sieff using the 21mm lens, if you have the chance get the Taschen Book about Sieff work he mentions the lens and that he was nearly fired for using for a Vogue or Harper's shot.

Alfred Hitchcock posant pour une photo de mode avec Ina Hollywood 1962 & Portrait d'une dame assise 1972 were both shot with the angulon
http://michel-renard.perso.sfr.fr/jean_loup_sieff.htm

You might find some other photographs shot with the angulon on Sieff's Website: www.jeanloupsieff.com

Dominik
 
i had the same thought, and bought the book (BIG BOOK) called Sieff 40 Jahre Fotografie which is full of great examples of his work, including the 21SA.

good luck

rick
 
Sa

Sa

Hi, as i recall from books and other press he did use the SA a lot, but you shouldn´t be surprised about distrotion, because when 21mm lens is used near and on subjects without straigth parallel lines like architecture distortion is not an issue.
Distortion will be more notorious when you force the lens to make it, for instance shooting from the floor or next to a wall.
Besides, take in consideration that many photogs may crop much or less their pictures in order to "correct" uncomfortable" distortion.
Thats why he was almost expelled from the magazine...:)

bye!
 
He also used a 28f2.8 Elmarit (actually the scarce v1 with infinity lock). The 21 mm focal length is not easy to work with initially. You have to "pre-visualize" the shot and think about angles and lines. However, when it works - it can be stunning.
Most of the the time, the key is to hold it straight!!! Even a slight "tilt" will show distorted lines. Sieff was a professional shooter and used whatever would work, Nikon, Leica's, Hasselblad's and larger formats.
The SA is a great lens, but you can get very much the same "effect" with any 21. If you are unsure about liking the 21, get a Skopar 21f4 to start with (much less money - and it will work on a metered M too - and it has a 39 mm filter thread for those deep red and orange filters!).
Tom
 
this would be for an M2. If not the SA 3.4 then I would get the c-biogon.

I am not talking about distortion of straight lines, I'm talking about the perspective distortion from being so close so things like a nose look like they bulge out.

samples would be ideal.
 
redisburning said:
this would be for an M2. If not the SA 3.4 then I would get the c-biogon.

I am not talking about distortion of straight lines, I'm talking about the perspective distortion from being so close so things like a nose look like they bulge out.

samples would be ideal.
Click to expand...

Then look at his photo of fashionist Jacques Fath's son and son's wife.
 
Hi, i use the vc 21mm f4 lens, brilliant! In my opinion its a viewfinder price that includes a great lens.
Of course you can´t lose choosing the biogon 21 f4.5, it´s a gem!

If you point at a nose from the front it will be disorted but if you take the profile of it it won´t, as T said you´ll have to work composition a lot. It´s a nice proyect thou!


Bye!
 
I couldn't find it in a quick google search, but the picture he "almost got fired for" is a good example. It's a picture of a girl wearing a coat with large hound's tooth pattern (I think) in an architectural setting. He evidently showed up for a shoot for Vogue with nothing but his Leica and the 21mm lens. Scared the AE to death. They loved the resulting picture. Just goes to show you, sometimes you just have to stick it out there and hope for the best
 
You are quite right and I own the Taschen book mentioned. Its well worth buying... tremendous. I also noticed how well he used the 21 and how he knows when he can use perspective distortion to his own ends and when to avoid it (and how).

As an aside, I found the book extremely 'warm.' I know little of the man, but there is a playfulness, a mischief if you like in his work and I found myself inspired beyond expectations.
 
Turtle, you're spot on. I had to get rid of that book because it just haunted me! I even loved his Rollei pictures early on. He was one of the very best, and a real original.
 
His wide angle portraits are awesome but geezum crow his burning of the edges around his portraits is pretty amazingly awful for such a prominent and otherwise great photographer.... I'd be tossing those prints after my first week in the darkroom!
 
Jean Loup Sieff and Chenz were my first inspirations when I started with photography at age 15. I bought their book "La Photo" and still have it.
In this book basically JLS tells you that you should not consider technology and only shoot with a camera appealing to you. The other guy, Chenz, is a pro gearhead, swearing by Nikon Fs only and medium format cameras.
The book is fun to read.
Today I still enjoy thinking about these guys, I have a bunch of Nikon Fs and a bunch of SA21. The SA21 were bought with JLS in mind.
 
goodtimes said:
Jean Loup Sieff and Chenz were my first inspirations when I started with photography at age 15. I bought their book "La Photo" and still have it.
In this book basically JLS tells you that you should not consider technology and only shoot with a camera appealing to you. The other guy, Chenz, is a pro gearhead, swearing by Nikon Fs only and medium format cameras.
The book is fun to read.
Today I still enjoy thinking about these guys, I have a bunch of Nikon Fs and a bunch of SA21. The SA21 were bought with JLS in mind.
Click to expand...

Well I have a twin brother here :eek:

;)

Like many of us here I own "Demain le temps sera plus vieux" but was lucky enough to attend some JLS exhibitions in the 1980s and 1990s and to see large enlargements of his work on FB paper, processed by Jean-Yves Brégand, his official darkroom guy, and that was really something...

BTW, I am still shooting with the 21, and I often find out, that depending on what you shoot, it's sometimes not obvious that it was shot with a 21, this is why I like that lens so much and favor it over the 24 (which I don't own any longer).
 
Highway 61 said:
Well I have a twin brother here :eek:

;)

Like many of us here I own "Demain le temps sera plus vieux" but was lucky enough to attend some JLS exhibitions in the 1980s and 1990s and to see large enlargements of his work on FB paper, processed by Jean-Yves Brégand, his official darkroom guy, and that was really something...

BTW, I am still shooting with the 21, and I often find out, that depending on what you shoot, it's sometimes not obvious that it was shot with a 21, this is why I like that lens so much and favor it over the 24 (which I don't own any longer).
Click to expand...

Your picture is really nice and shows the quality of the 21SA.
 
I ended up getting a Taschen book that covers 4 decades of work, including some fun self portraits

I was more than impressed with the quality of the images. he was a very talented man.
 
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