Fujifilm: Film production is profitable

exiled4979 said:
well, now that most of the competition is out of the picture...
Click to expand...

??
None of Fujis competitors has stopped production. Kodak is currently continuing production.
And at Agfa-Gevaert, Ilford, Lucky, Foma, Maco/Rollei, Fotokemika, Adox nothing has changed.

Cheers, Jan
 
HHPhoto said:
??
None of Fujis competitors has stopped production.
Click to expand...

I guess he did not mean that, but strictly speaking the domestic competition has stopped - completely, as far as I can make out. Konica is toast, and Mitsubishi (who briefly had a film division) got out of photographic products (past ink jet paper) again.
 
HHPhoto said:
??
None of Fujis competitors has stopped production. Kodak is currently continuing production. And at Agfa-Gevaert, Ilford, Lucky, Foma, Maco/Rollei, Fotokemika, Adox nothing has changed.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...

Well, Agfa's consumer film business, which was spun off from the parent company, did go belly-up in 2005. Agfa's specialty film division is still around.

Jim B.
 
sevo said:
I guess he did not mean that, but strictly speaking the domestic competition has stopped - completely, as far as I can make out. Konica is toast, and Mitsubishi (who briefly had a film division) got out of photographic products (past ink jet paper) again.
Click to expand...

Mitsubishi haven't had a film division. They have a paper division (RA-4 paper and raw paper for photo papers).

There has only been Konica in the past. But there film production was stopped several years ago.
Konicas paper division continued production under the DNP brand.
The films sold under DNP brand has been relabelled Kodak stuff.

Cheers, Jan
 
Mackinaw said:
Well, Agfa's consumer film business, which was spun off from the parent company, did go belly-up in 2005. Agfa's specialty film division is still around.

Jim B.
Click to expand...

Yes, we all know it. But AgfaPhoto production GmbH insolvency was seven years ago.
Nothing what affected Fujis operation in the time span which is talked about in the article.

Cheers, Jan
 
HHPhoto said:
??
None of Fujis competitors has stopped production. Kodak is currently continuing production.
And at Agfa-Gevaert, Ilford, Lucky, Foma, Maco/Rollei, Fotokemika, Adox nothing has changed.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...
But I guess we'll see change soon, and I see companies producing mainly consumer films at highest risk. With more and more point & shoots being replaced by digicams and cell phones, demand for mainstay color film will steadily decline. Non-consumer oriented films should have touched bottom by now; every professional or advance amateur who wants or needs to switch to digital has done so, and the ones still using film will continue to so. Companies now able to exist on non-consumer film sales will have the biggest chance of staying afloat..
 
pvdhaar said:
But I guess we'll see change soon, and I see companies producing mainly consumer films at highest risk. With more and more point & shoots being replaced by digicams and cell phones, demand for mainstay color film will steadily decline. .
Click to expand...

Hi Peter,

well, that is a very interesting point. We hear that opinion for about 10 years now.
About 8 - 10 years ago the snapshooter market went digital (at least the industry told us that....😉) with digital p+s cameras.
For about 5- 7 years most mobil phones have cameras included.

So you would guess that for a quite long time the snapshooters market is completely digital.
But, surprise, I can go in every drugstore and find consumer CN film for only 0,85 Cent/film. An extremely low pice.
What does that mean? Such low prices can only be achieved with mass production, millions of films per production run.
So, even in 2012, about eight to ten years after digital has taken over the snapshooters market, cheap consumer film is produced in masses.
It is astonishing, but it is the reality.
Every time when I visit my local camera store (they offer a good variety of films, from consumer to professional film in the fridge) there are customers with film p+s or basic SLRs who buy consumer film. Middle aged people, sometimes older people, and often very young people who have discovered film recently (partly by Holga and Lomo cams).

Some months ago I visited a smaller German photo fair and the Kodak rep there told me that last year more than 50 millions single use cams were sold worldwide.
Despite all digital p+s and cell phone cams.
And the Kodak rep. said they know from their customers that SUC's are often used by digital photographers, e.g. in vacancies at the beach, and the water proof models for bathing / swimming snap-shots.

I know from Lomographers that they often use the cheaper CN films, so this film types get support from this growing group.

Cheers, Jan
 
Last edited:
sevo said:
Sure? Who made it, then? The stuff was rather peculiar in its (low) quality...
Click to expand...

AFAIK it was relabelled Konica, but former types (not the better, more advanced emulsions which were sold under Konica label, but earlier generation Konica emulsions).

Cheers, Jan
 
HHPhoto said:
Hi Peter,

well, that is a very interesting point. We hear that opinion for about 10 years now.
About 8 - 10 years ago the snapshooter market went digital (at least the industry told us that....😉) with digital p+s cameras.
For about 5- 7 years most mobil phones have cameras included.

So you would guess that for a quite long time the snapshooters market is completely digital.
But, surprise, I can go in every drugstore and find consumer CN film for only 0,85 Cent/film. An extremely low pice.
What does that mean? Such low prices can only be achieved with mass production, millions of films per production run.
So, even in 2012, about eight to ten years after digital has taken over the snapshooters market, cheap consumer film is produced in masses.
It is astonishing, but it is the reality.
Every time when I visit my local camera store (they offer a good variety of films, from consumer to professional film in the fridge) there are customers with film p+s or basic SLRs who buy consumer film. Middle aged people, sometimes older people, and often very young people who have discovered film recently (partly by Holga and Lomo cams).

Some months ago I visited a smaller German photo fair and the Kodak rep there told me that last year more than 50 millions single use cams were sold worldwide.
Despite all digital p+s and cell phone cams.
And the Kodak rep. said they know from their customers that SUC's are often used by digital photographers, e.g. in vacancies at the beach, and the water proof models for bathing / swimming snap-shots.

I know from Lomographers that they often use the cheaper CN films, so this film types get support from this growing group.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...
Good observations.. but under the surface, I still fear there's more going on.

True, film is still being sold in considerable quantity (like the mentioned SUCs). And as a film user myself I rejoice in being able to run ultra cheap film through my XA2. But I can only hope that the XA2 lasts me a long time, cause there are virtually no film cameras produced that would serve as a replacement when it dies.. I think that holds for a lot of P&S film shooters, when the camera dies, who'll replace it with a film P&S anymore?

Also I'm afraid that the low price of consumer film can't be exclusively explained by large volumes of film being sold. Such low pricing is generally a symptom of a market that works on price fighting. For companies in this squeeze, this means lower margins, and less incentive to innovate and extend manufacturing capacity.
 
pvdhaar said:
And as a film user myself I rejoice in being able to run ultra cheap film through my XA2. But I can only hope that the XA2 lasts me a long time, cause there are virtually no film cameras produced that would serve as a replacement when it dies.. I think that holds for a lot of P&S film shooters, when the camera dies, who'll replace it with a film P&S anymore?
Click to expand...

as we know, film cameras work for quite a long time.
And there are dozens of millions of film p+s cameras out there.
Due to the CIPA, the organisation of Japanese camera manufacturers, between the year 2000 and 2010 about 80 million film p+s cameras were sold.
Yes, 80 (!) millions, even in this decade in which digital became popular with the masses.

If your film p+s dies, just buy a used one which is working. There are enough available.

We will not running dry on film cameras in the next 30-40 years. Too much cameras out there. Don't worry.

Cheers, Jan
 
HHPhoto said:
as we know, film cameras work for quite a long time.
And there are dozens of millions of film p+s cameras out there.
Due to the CIPA, the organisation of Japanese camera manufacturers, between the year 2000 and 2010 about 80 million film p+s cameras were sold.
Yes, 80 (!) millions, even in this decade in which digital became popular with the masses.

If your film p+s dies, just buy a used one which is working. There are enough available.

We will not running dry on film cameras in the next 30-40 years. Too much cameras out there. Don't worry.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...

Just an addition, because I've forgotten it to mention in my above post:
Film p+s cameras are still produced by several manufacturers. If you want a new, you can buy a new one.
Fuji, AgfaPhoto, Braun for example are offering p+s cams.
(and of course the LSI. The Lomo LC-A is based on Cosinas CX-1 camera. And the LC-A(+) is not a toy cam, picture quality is not bad).

Cheers, Jan
 
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