S2 vs S3 finder

[maitani]

I m eyeballing a nice S2 at the moment, owning already an S3 i wonder if there is any difference to the finder

I read that the s2 is great for 50 where the s3 is probably the best for 35,

How about clarity of the S2 finder is the patch better than on the s3?

the patch on my SP is great, the one on the S3 slightly worse, but still very usable,
would you rate the S2 finder rather above or below the S3?

thanks for your advice

 

[EZfan]

IMHO, S2 finder is the best for 50mm lens. Cheers.

 

[VinceC]

All things being equal, the S2's usually have the bestand most-visible RF patch, but every now and then someone on this forum mentions a hard-to-see finder patch (very rarely). They do have a slight greenish tint to the finder, by design, possibly to help with contrast. Inside the finder, it's just a 50mm frameline. No notches to help with closeup framing as with the S3. The two-part shutter-speed dial on the S2 is a little slower to use. The shutter is very loud compared to an S3/SP. They over-engineered it for durability, but the brake has a definite klack-thwap sound, as loud as a 1960s SLR.

 

[Highway 61]

What Vince said.

 

[Timestep]

The S2 for 50mm definitely. 1:1 uncluttered frame.
Kentucky windage for parallax, good enough.
Otherwise use an F or F2 for 100% accuracy.
Horses for courses. Make the most of both

 

[Erik van Straten]

The S2 finder has a greenish tint to give contast to the rangefinder spot, wich appears to be pink, but this is an illusion.
At 1m (3ft) the frame is very accurate, but on infinity a bit more is recorded on film. As the viewfinder is very close to the lens, the fact that there is no parallax-correction doesn't matter at all.

Erik.

 

[Highway 61]

The S2 finder has a greenish tint to give contast to the rangefinder spot, wich appears to be pink, but this is an illusion.

Because of its design, very similar to the Contax II one (gold plated beamsplitter prism), the S2 finder has a greenish tint, yes, but the rangefinder spot is yellow/orange, definitely not pink...

Actually both the tints of resp. the VF and the RF spot are very very very close to what is seen in a good SP finder.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Because of its design, very similar to the Contax II one (gold plated beamsplitter prism), the S2 finder has a greenish tint, yes, but the rangefinder spot is yellow/orange, definitely not pink...

What I wanted to say is that the color of the rangefinder spot is just the natural color, without any coloring. It only appears to be pink as an optical effect to the greenish color of the viewfinder, the complementary color. The same effect appears when you look trough green Ray Ban sunglasses. The world around the glass also appears to be pink.
The viewfinder of the S2 is not similar to that of a Contax II. In fact it is a kind of Leitz SBOOI wich is placed behind a beamsplitter (two cemented prisms). That's why it is life-size.

Erik.

 

[maitani]

Some great advice here, exactly what I was looking for, I m tempted for an S2 now the 'art deco' touch of this camera is second to none.

Another question, is it rather F/F2 loud or FM2 loud? I have a cloth shutter S3 which is almost silent always liked the smoothness.

 

[Highway 61]

What I wanted to say is that the color of the rangefinder spot is just the natural color, without any coloring. It only appears to be pink as an optical effect to the greenish color of the viewfinder, the complementary color. The same effect appears when you look trough green Ray Ban sunglasses. The world around the glass also appears to be pink.
The viewfinder of the S2 is not similar to that of a Contax II. In fact it is a kind of Leitz SBOOI wich is placed behind a beamsplitter (two cemented prisms). That's why it is life-size.

Erik.

I still disagree. The rangefinder spot hasn't a neutral coloring.

When I look at a white wall (I mean, really white) through the S2 viewfinder, what I see in the finder is greenish (yes it's almost the same tint as the G15 Ray-Ban glass, which is very nice because it enhances the contrast of what you see) and what is in the rangefinder spot is yellow-orange.

Both when compared with the actual white of the wall paint, not when compared with each other, so, the yellow-orange tint of the rangefinder patch is neither a subjective perception relative to the greenish tint of the viewfinder nor an optical effect, but an actual yellow-orange tint.

I haven't written that the viewfinder of an S2 is similar to the one of a Contax II : I know that there is a mirrored optical unit with an etched frame in the S2 viewfinder, while there isn't in the Contax II viewfinder.

I was meaning the beamsplitter prism itself : same greenish tint and same yellow-orange rangefinder patch coming from the same assembly technology (gold plating of the two cemented sides of the prism).

The Nikon S3 has a silver cemented prism, and as a result the finder has a very neutral tint and the rangefinder patch has almost no coloring, thus it may be useful to add a blue filter in front of the finder window to get a slightly more usable rangefinder patch in low-contrast shooting conditions (see Jonmanjiro's thread about this).

I have two Nikon S2 bodies, both with excellent viewfinders, and both have the same tints, was it for the finder itself or the rangefinder patch.

Yours may have faded a bit, hence the "pink" you feel.

Bottom line : the S2 shutter isn't as loud as the F/F2 shutter. Once the camera is fitted in an half-leather case the shutter sound is on par with the S3/SP one.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Both when compared with the actual white of the wall paint, not when compared with each other, so, the yellow-orange tint of the rangefinder patch is neither a subjective perception relative to the greenish tint of the viewfinder nor an optical effect, but an actual yellow-orange tint.

Okay, I can agree with this; the way people are calling colors is highly subjective, see Ludwig Wittgenstein and Goethe.

I have three S2's: a chrome chrome dial, a chrome black dial and a black chrome dial, and the rangefinder spot of all three is the same. However, the small prisms on the left when seen from the front are a bit dirty; I see small dark spots on it; could be the beginning of fungus. Does anyone know how to clean these without removing the top plate? When I remove the front bezel I see a small hole beside the small rangefinder window. Is that for cleaning the prism?

Erik.

 

[enasniearth]

S2 prism

S2 prism

The small rf prism is difficult to clean , it is cemented into the metal bracket and held with small screws .
The surface that reflects the light is next to the metal bracket .
I have had some luck cleaning it with cut strips of lens tissue / micro fiber cloth fead between the bracket and prism . This is almost impossible to do with the top cover in place . You have to be careful as you can loosen the prism if material is too thick , or you push too much .
The view in my s2 is green cast with magenta / golden rf spot .
The green cast to the main finder gives nice contrast to the rf spot and makes the gold rf spot appear magenta in color .
The s2 has only one reflected bright line and does not have as much flare as the s3 , this is a lot worse if you wear glasses . Your eye socket shields the reflected finder , most of the flare comes from reflected light entering the rear of the finder .
The sp has projected frames so does not have the flare problem . It's finder has two prisms one for the bright lines and the other for the rf spot so the view is a bit darker , and the rf spot after 50 years lacks the contrast of the s2 . Most sp need the finder cleaned to have a good useable rf spot . A properly serviced sp will give at nice rf image .
As one service person has told me the amount of gold spattered on the prisms varies so some cameras are better than others due to tolerances in manufacture .

The s2 is a gem of a camera , the shutter brake gives a distinctive sound . It is louder than the cloth shutter sp and s3 , however no so bad next to the same cameras with the titanium shutters .

Any old Nikon can benefit from servicing , however if it is working nicely just use it .

 

[Highway 61]

Does anyone know how to clean these without removing the top plate ?

What enasniearth wrote.

In another thread Jonmanjiro reported how Shintaro could clean that small prism : some small pieces of lens tissue soaked in Eclipse and delicately pushed in there with a toothpick, then pulled back with a tweezer.

The key is to be very patient, very careful (not to have the prism move, or worse...) and to repeat the operation MANY times until it gets as clean as possible.

It works. I could do it on one of my S2's.

Black spots on this prism may not be fungus but just old hardened grime (greasy haze mixed with dirt for several decades).

Thanks for your smart comment about the perception of colours.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you enasniearth and Highway 61 for your valuable information.

So it is better for cleaning the small prism when the top cover is off. The biggest problem to remove the top cover is to remove the retaining ring around the release button. A special key is neccessary. Also the spring that takes care of returning the transport lever is tricky to handle. Anybody succeeded in removing the top cover of an S2?

Erik.

 

[heliographer]

Let's just call it like it is. Fine, you want an S2. I wish you luck/happiness with your decision (de gustibus non disputandum est). I had one. I hated it. The only things that were good about it were the wide rf base length and the reasonably high quality materials/manufacturing. But everything else about it--the discolored vf/rf, the stupid Contax focusing system, the horrible ergonomics, etc. made me regret the purchase. The only camera I regret buying more is the Minox 35 GL.

Is it really that much cheaper than a Voigtlander (or dare I say it, a Leica M/CL)?

 

[Erik van Straten]

Fine, you want an S2. I hated it. The only things that were good about it were the wide rf base length and the reasonably high quality materials/manufacturing. But everything else made me regret the purchase.

Often people without any photographic skill blame their camera ...

Erik.

 

[enasniearth]

S2 vs Leica m

S2 vs Leica m

I started photographing with the s2 in 1974 , $100 with the 5 cm 1.4 lens .
It was difficult to find a Leica , and if you managed to locate one it had the 5 cm 2.8 or 3.5 Elmar . Also it was quite a bit more in cost .

In 1985 I purchased a m5 Leica with a 35 summilux for $650 it seemed like a small fortune in 1985 . Shot with this for many years .
The Leica is no longer with me .
The s2 still is .
The Nikon is a very basic camera , that does very well .
Every Leica lens I have had from the same time period has haze and cleaning marks . The Leica m2 or m3 from the same time almost always needs a$250 servicing .
Even now a good s2 with the 1.4 lens is in the $450 -$700 range while the m2 is $650 or more for the body , and Leitz 50's in the summicron range cost another $500 or quite a bit more. Forget buying the 1.4 summilux at $1200

Is the s2 perfect ? No . It matches a nice high speed lens to an accurate rangefinder . The shutter is perhaps too loud , not Leica m quiet .
The back removes for quick loading and it has a rewind crank ..
In the end it is not a Leica
It is a nikon and it is built to photograph .

 

[maitani]

The only things that were good about it were the wide rf base length and the reasonably high quality materials/manufacturing.

thanks, i guess it's important to share also negative experiences too, gives an interesting overall impression of what to expect, I'm perfectly aware that the S2 might be a little 'quirky' due to age, technology has come a long way. actually, personally I prefer the focusing direction of the nikons. funnily exactly the wide rf base and good build are important for me, if the finder is at least equal to my S3 I'm happy, if it's even slightly better, I'm in heaven.
Also my existing lenses, make the S2 a viable option for me, I'm not interested in re-buying everything in M-mount, 'not-going leica' was a decision I did some time ago, and I'm glad I did actually. After testing the latest cron against my 3.5 1.8 nikkor it was an eye opener for me. so i guess I will give the S2 a go.

I have a Bessa R3M too, really a nice machanical camera. used it occasionally with a 50 and the 15 wide, but it's in the classifieds at the moment, the nikons just have the better feel to me, without feeling as 'sticky' as the contaxes or overstatet as the leicas. sold my M6 in favour of an SP and didn't look back.

 

[Highway 61]

Thank you enasniearth and Highway 61 for your valuable information.

So it is better for cleaning the small prism when the top cover is off. The biggest problem to remove the top cover is to remove the retaining ring around the release button. A special key is neccessary. Also the spring that takes care of returning the transport lever is tricky to handle. Anybody succeeded in removing the top cover of an S2?

Erik.

I successfuly removed three S2's top covers without any hassles.

To remove the flash sync. post, use a rubber glove.

To remove the A/R ring, first remove the set screw, then use a very thin pair of tweezers (the ones you buy at the pharmacy to remove spins off your skin work well) ; the key is to bend them a little so that they make an U not a V and to carefuly insert their ends in the A/R ring slots deeply before beginning to unscrew the ring.

The spring which "takes care of returning the transport lever" hasn't to be touched, it's inside the transport ratchett and all of this stays in place.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you, Highway 61, for this explanation. In fact I've ordered an S2 service manual to study the camera some more before I start this adventure. I like reading stuff like that.

Strange that removing the part you mention is so hard. It looks quite grippy. Removing it with only your fingers seems easy. Doubtless it is not.

Erik