fanshaw
Well-known
Even better you can buy self adhesive felt pads with circular holes of the right size made for protecting corns on the feet. The felt thickness is ideal for use on the viewfinder eyepieces of most FSU cameras.
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
Now, THAT is the most ingeneous idea I have heard in a while. That should be perfect. Corny but practical.
Cheers,
Dez
Cheers,
Dez
Frontman
Well-known
I also have both cameras, and both take great pics. I have an early Kiev, and I find that it is very well built. I shoot it primarily with a Jupiter 12 lens and an accessory finder. The finder (a Leica VIOOH) is much better with any lens than the built in finder. Reliability in Kievs is an issue, mainly with the shutter. The ribbons which transport the shutter curtains are prone to rotting and breaking. This is also true of the Zorki, but the Kiev is much more difficult to service. I have replaced the curtains and ribbons on Zorki cameras myself, but the Kiev mechanism is beyond my skill level.
I prefer the Zorki 3, but I actually do more shooting with my Kiev,
I prefer the Zorki 3, but I actually do more shooting with my Kiev,
PMCC
Late adopter.
If I may go off on a slight tangent: as among LTM FSU bodies, how does the Zorki 6 stack up vs. the Zorki 3/3M?
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Wonderful! No matter the problem it gets sorted out on RFF, even badly fitting shoes and scratched glasses.
Regards, David
wolves3012
Veteran
Stacks up very well if you don't need slower speeds. Pros: it has a hinged back, lever wind and a bright VF with a long baselength RF. Cons: not quite as pretty, about 0.75x VF rather than about 1:1 and the slowest speed is 1/30th. Personal opinion but I think the VF/RF is amongst the best in FSU-land (along with the identical one in the Zorki 5).
PMCC
Late adopter.
Thanks Wolves. From your signature, looks like you've seen bunches of FSU gear. Any favorites among the LTMs?
wolves3012
Veteran
That's a tough one! Er....I like most of them, for a variety of reasons. Favourites are probably the Zorki 1 & 5. Least favourites are the FED 5, mainly because they aren't so well made.
PMCC
Late adopter.
How is the Zorki 5 preferable to the 6?
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
I chose the Zorki 5 over the 6 primarily because it's smaller. Height is the same, build is almost identical, but the fact it's bottom loading instead of hinged back means it's thinner and fits easier in the back pocket.
I want to be the voice of dissent here and say that I don't like Zorki viewfinders at all for critical focusing. I know Wolves and I have discussed this previously, but the Fed viewfinders, being darker and more contrasty, are much easier for me to focus. It's not a problem with something like a Jupiter 12, but I recently got a Jupiter 3 and have found that while I can focus it perfectly wide-open and close up with a Fed 2, my focus is all over the shop under similar situations on a Zorki 5. It's just much easier to see the focusing clearly on a Fed.
And before anyone says it: Yes, both cameras are accurately shimmed, the Jupiter 3 is also accurately shimmed, the rangefinders are both calibrated correctly, etc. I just find Zorki RF images "float" more. Not a problem after about 1.5m with enough DoF, but closer than that at f1.5? Not a chance.
I want to be the voice of dissent here and say that I don't like Zorki viewfinders at all for critical focusing. I know Wolves and I have discussed this previously, but the Fed viewfinders, being darker and more contrasty, are much easier for me to focus. It's not a problem with something like a Jupiter 12, but I recently got a Jupiter 3 and have found that while I can focus it perfectly wide-open and close up with a Fed 2, my focus is all over the shop under similar situations on a Zorki 5. It's just much easier to see the focusing clearly on a Fed.
And before anyone says it: Yes, both cameras are accurately shimmed, the Jupiter 3 is also accurately shimmed, the rangefinders are both calibrated correctly, etc. I just find Zorki RF images "float" more. Not a problem after about 1.5m with enough DoF, but closer than that at f1.5? Not a chance.
wolves3012
Veteran
Like Coldkennels says, it's a bit slimmer. I like it for simplicity (no timer, slow speeds etc) coupled with a very light lever-wind that's quick to use. This is probably about sample variation but my Zorki 6 has an industrial-strength lever return spring (and yes, the mechanism has been CLAd). It is, of course, bottom-loading so very much personal taste if that suits. For me, I have no problems with bottom-loading.
wolves3012
Veteran
I don't see that as dissent, it's your personal taste. What works for you is best and I'd agree the FEDs do "snap" more due to higher contrast. For me, the downside is I find them a serious handicap in low light situations (something I enjoy) because they're darker in order to achieve that contrast. I don't have a J-3 or J-9 though, so I can't say I wouldn't struggle with them on a Zorki. Maybe I should try my J-11 on the Zorki 5 sometime.
davidtan
Established
After much deliberation, I think I'll go with the Kiev 4a with Helios 103. I'll probably choose this camera for these reasons:
- I want the Helios 103. The samples I've seen of it are great. The discussions comparing this lens to the Jupiter-8 suggests that the Helios is sharper, but has worse out-of-focus highlights (i.e. bokeh) than the Jupiter. However, I don't actually like the Jupiter's OOF highlights; they appear too prominent and distracting. The Helios, though, seems more pleasant in this category. The Helios 103 is not found in LTM (unless you employ a $200+ adapter), so it is practically unique to the Contax mount.
- I think the Kiev's long baselength is going to be very useful. Sure, it gives it more focusing throw. But I find that my favorite photos are rather up close. I also like using wide apertures. Both practices will benefit greatly from a more accurate rangefinder. There's also the claim put out in this thread that Kiev lenses have closer focusing than their LTM counterparts.
- FSU LTM lenses aren't guaranteed to work on other LTM cameras. One of the reasons why I had originally considered the Zorki 3 was because of the fact that it was a LTM rangefinder. If I ever planned on spreading out into other LTM (or M-mount) rangefinders, I would be able to use the Jupiter-8 that came with the Zorki. But different design standards between FSU LTM and the rest of the world meant that some FSU LTM lenses will need to be shimmed for them to focus correctly on other LTM bodies. I have no confidence in doing this procedure myself, and I wouldn't spend the money to have it done for me. So, I might as well regard the FSU LT-mount as incompatible. The Kiev mount, on the other hand, is mostly compatible with its Western cousin, the Contax.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Bizarrely, I have very few problems with the J11/Z5 combo. I put it down to physical distance. If I move my Z5 slightly when I'm focusing at 1m, the RF image floats around a bit and it's hard to tell exactly where I'm focused. That's not the case at 2.5m, and not with a Fed 2; but I have to agree, the Fed 2 can be a pain when it's dark.
You make some very valid points. The Helios 103 is indeed a beautiful lens - to the point where it actually shocked me. It's got a very "smooth" feel to it - even more so than the Jupiters. I wouldn't knock the J8, though. The Jupiter/Sonnar formula is something I would really miss if I started shooting SLRs, and the J8m is a lower-profile lens, so often I prefer that for a 50mm lens on the Kiev. It's not quite pocketable, but it's a bit easier to put in a bag.
And lens choice, your third point, is a strange double edged sword. On one hand, there's far fewer options - both for lenses and bodies. But what's there is a hell of a lot cheaper. My Kiev 4AM, Helios 103, Jupiter 8M, Jupiter 12 and Jupiter 11 kit cost me next to nothing, and would actually make a fantastic kit. I could sell every other camera I own and probably be quite happy just with those lenses alone. That said, I love my LTM collection, even though, as you point out, it's an entirely Russian set.
But yes, I think you made the right call. I saw your other topic (about the possibility of going for a more expensive option), and I think a good Kiev will honestly give you a damn good taste of the RF "way" without compromise or too much expense. And if you do end up going for a Leica M somewhere down the line, there's always the Amedeo adapter to use the Kiev glass.
Now go buy it before you let someone talk you out of it!
davidtan
Established
If I've researched correctly, then I understand that both Canon and Nikon produced their own Sonnar copies for the LTM. These seem to be rather affordable too, so in the event that I ever go the LTM/M route and have a hankering for Sonnars, I can use those.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
That is correct. Sonnar on Leica comes in three flavours:
- Canon/Nikon "native" LTM lenses
- FSU LTM Jupiters, correctly shimmed
- Contax/Kiev mount, using an adaptor.
davidtan
Established
Order placed. Kiev 4A. Helios 103 (NEW!). Brown camera case.
Can't wait.
Can't wait.
wolves3012
Veteran
You're unlikely to be disappointed with the Helios, it has to be one of the best lenses in terms of price/performance and it'll stand up well on performance alone. Let's hope the body is a good one too - just get ready for that "Contax-grip", i.e. keep your finger out of the RF window's view.
Depending which case you are getting, I hope they've found one that'll take the Helios because the earlier case that came with the J-8 lens is too shallow in the nose.
Let us know how you get on...one word of advice: cock the shutter before changing speeds. You won't do any harm by failing to observe this but with some speed changes the mechanism might not change properly, resulting in wrong exposure.
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Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Case? CASE? Who keeps the Kiev in a CASE? It's a beautiful thing - put a strap on it and show it off in its bare, natural form!
davidtan
Established
Getting the case solely for the removable straps anyway; the Japanese straps that Fedka advertises are more expensive and require leather conditioning.