Kiev 60 light leak (sigh)

[Roger Vadim]

Hello!

Ok, here is another light leak question...

My clunky and chunky Kiev 60 developed this sort of light leak which occurs on roughly 1/3 of the frames.
I googled the issue and just found the "classical" vertical light-leaks caused by the gap in the shutter curtain -as you see this is different, horizontal and always in the same area. sometimes not as pronounced.
This is rather strange to me - the body is flocked (so these are no internal reflections) and the camera is in a pretty good shape. The lens is a Biometar, no leaks here. No signs of light-leaks in the body as well.

I think it could be the shutter not closing properly while rewinding, but doing so with the back open one sees no signs of this either.

Does anyone experienced such an issue??

Please help me finding the fun and trust again in this sowjet monster.

Cheers, michael

 

[wpb]

I'm not completely familiar with that camera model, but maybe the clues gained from the image you posted can lead you in the right direction.

1. The light leak is blue. Most likely the light is not directly hitting the film surface, rather it is reaching the film indirectly.

2. The light leak is in the rebate of the film. This (again, most likely) means the leak is not happening from a problem with the shutter as the leak would be confined to the image area.

3. The light leak is (fairly) diffuse. The sharper the outline of the leak the closer the leak is to the surface of the film. Your example shows a leak close to, but not in direct contact with the film.

From those clues I would be looking for an indirect leak, on either side of the shutter (my guess would be on the take-up side) maybe a few millimeters away from the plane where the film travels through the camera; most likely from a seam in the camera body.

Take it into a dark room with a flashlight, give your eyes a few minutes to adjust and check from the inside and outside of the camera to see if you can find it. Most likely it will manifest itself more as a "glow" than light directly passing through an opening.

Good luck.

 

[sevo]

Blue usually means a leak from the rear, so the door is the most likely culprit. If on 220, the leak might be anywhere - on 120 the backing paper will guard the film against perpendicular light from the rear, so it must be coming from the edges, at a place where a gap can form (i.e. not right at the pressure plate, but somewhere close by either spool).

 

[t6un]

I'm almost sure this is the light leaking around the lower edge of the shutter curtain. The fact that the light leak is just a little bit wider than the image tells it's coming thru the film gate, at a low angle.
Most probably it happened when you didn't wind the shutter after the shot, leaving the mirror up?

 

[sevo]

At closer inspection, there also is a odd white shape on the left margin. There should be some corresponding detail on the camera, and this will have the light leak.

 

[Roger Vadim]

Thanks for all your comments - I tried the flashlight in a dark room and it looks like it is the slit between the two curtains. This slit is closed and stays closed when travelling when winding the shutter, but when viewed at a very flat angle one can see light shining through it especially in the lower part.

So the blueish tint makes sense because the light is bended through the two overlapping parts.

Basically the distance between the two curtains when closed is too wide, means they do not touch. They overlap about 5 mm, which looks right, but are not in contact and have about 1mm distance between them. The light can enter at a very flat angle - this explains that the leak spreads into the rebate.

This is pretty much un-curable without stripping the camera down totally... anybody got an idea?

Thanks again, VERY helpfull all you comments!
Cheers

PS: The white thing at the left margin is some tape on the negative from the end of the roll. should have cut it away...

 

[sevo]

Thanks for all your comments - I tried the flashlight in a dark room and it looks like it is the slit between the two curtains. This slit is closed and stays closed when travelling when winding the shutter, but when viewed at a very flat angle one can see light shining through it especially in the lower part.

Maybe. But at sufficiently flat angles just about every SLR focal plane shutter will let light through - they merely have to block light at those angles that can come from the lens, and only while the mirror is up.

You should not rule out other causes - at any rate not until you have found the origin of the exposed blotch in the left margin.

 

[t6un]

Sevo, I think the "white blotch" is something (tape?) added to the film before scanning.

Roger, isn't Kiev 60 wind mechanism of a double.stroke variety? If it is, the light leak shoudln't be so evenly distributed from left to right. I can actually see a thin vertical stripe near the right edge and I believe this has a separate origin from the rest of the leak.

 

[sevo]

Sevo, I think the "white blotch" is something (tape?) added to the film before scanning.

Could be, provided that it is a scan from CN - on slide, tapes and other opaque objects attached to the film will show up as dark/black.

 

[Roger Vadim]

Sevo: The white blotch is indeed a piece of tape from the development (color negative). Should have cut it away to avoid confusion

So you say it is normal that there is a gap between the overlap of shutter curtains? Maybe because the curtains in this 6x6 camera are rather large compared to 35 mm cameras this is more of an issue here? - the curtain is a wee bit "wobbly" at least compared to a Leica 😛

Also the mirror stays up at a Kiev 60 until you wind on - so more chance to let light through at weird angles?

Any cure for this, my friends?

t6un: Kiev 60 has got no double stroke - a rather rough one stroke winding mechanism. as said: this ain't a M3 🙄

 

[Nokton48]

I've had five or six of these K60's.

Try capping the lens, or covering it completely, after firing the shutter. Then advance the film and uncap the lens.

Not very convenient, but it might work for you.

 

[Roger Vadim]

Try capping the lens, or covering it completely, after firing the shutter. Then advance the film and uncap the lens.

Not very convenient, but it might work for you.

Yeah, that seems like the only solution... need to write it on the camera to not forget that - this camera is a true diva.

I have a love-hate relationship with the camera, it feels like an oversized F2 - the mirror "bang" is a bit hefty, and it creates a bit of a laughter when you carry it around. But the pictures it takes are great -

Plus it is like driving an old Jaguar: 1 hour shooting, 2 hours fixing ... (the aperture on my Biomatar got stuck as well, oh boy...)

Maybe its time to save for a Hasselblad - anybody sells one in Europe??

 

[sevo]

So you say it is normal that there is a gap between the overlap of shutter curtains?

There should not be a outright gap viewed straight from the front - if there is, yours is broken (or worn). But there may be leakage even on a shutter that is within factory spec when light is hitting from the side (when transporting with no lens attached or with the lens pointed at a bright light) - the Kiev shutter is none too light-tight even at the best of times, and they do not down the mirror before transporting the shutter like many cameras with more complex gearing do (nor does it have a auto-return mirror).

 

[rjbuzzclick]

Check for leaks around the DOF preview lever. I have heard that some of the later Kiev 60's aren't well masked in that area.

 

[View~Finder]

Looking at the image, I can see there are at least two distinct light leaks – one running horizontally and the other (less pronounced) vertically.
Most probably the horizontal light leak is coming from the bottom side of the door. There is an easy fix for that: glue a cotton string at the bottom door groove. The groove is 1.5mm wide, so the string should be at comparable thickness. Use contact cement or other similarly elastic adhesive.
Once you eliminate that leak, you can investigate the vertical one. As others have suggested, leave the camera with the mirror down and lens cap on. If that doesn’t help, the leak may be also from the door – remove the foam or cloth strip and glue a new velvet strip.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Grigor

 

[Bee612]

Kiev 60 light leaks

Kiev 60 light leaks

Hello all,
This is my first msg on this forum, please forgive me if I stumble in any netiquette fault.
I have just got a Kiev-60 and, beside frame anti-overlapping technique that still I am learning, I can see a vertical light leak on every shot, always in the same position.https://flic.kr/p/2huNMLV

 

[ARAX]

In most cases, this occurs when using a folding waist-level finder on bright days.

Light can leak in through the viewfinder.

To prevent this, use a prism finder in bright conditions or cover the viewfinder with your hand at the moment of shooting.

Please help me finding the fun and trust again in this sowjet monster.