stillshunter
unlearning digital habits
Hi folks,
I've attempted to find answers using various searches and come up short. I've purchased a used M2 and I'm not sure it has the original M2 rangefinder on-board.
My suspicions started while I was out today switching VF modes. I noticed framelines larger than those of the 35mm when I switch to 90mm - could these be 28mm?.
For the sake of completeness - this is what I have when I switch the finder framer selector to the left-centre-right:
Left - solid 35mm line (except corners) with very small corner-only region in centre (135mm?)
Centre - solid 50mm line (except corners) with slightly smaller corner-only inside (75mm?)
Right - solid 90mm line (except corners) in centre with identical solid frame lines (except corners) right at the edge (larger than 35mm lines)
Looks almost identical to the centre column (0.72) of this random image I found on Google
Looked through a copy of the M2 manual and the view through my finder certainly seems very different. Also might explain why I couldn't quite master the M2's DoF 'preview'....
So do I have a different finder in my M2? If so, any idea what might have been retro-fitted?
If it helps the serial is 101####. And also came with the Quickload kit....
Appreciate any assistance that folks could provide.
I've attempted to find answers using various searches and come up short. I've purchased a used M2 and I'm not sure it has the original M2 rangefinder on-board.
My suspicions started while I was out today switching VF modes. I noticed framelines larger than those of the 35mm when I switch to 90mm - could these be 28mm?.
For the sake of completeness - this is what I have when I switch the finder framer selector to the left-centre-right:
Left - solid 35mm line (except corners) with very small corner-only region in centre (135mm?)
Centre - solid 50mm line (except corners) with slightly smaller corner-only inside (75mm?)
Right - solid 90mm line (except corners) in centre with identical solid frame lines (except corners) right at the edge (larger than 35mm lines)
Looks almost identical to the centre column (0.72) of this random image I found on Google
Looked through a copy of the M2 manual and the view through my finder certainly seems very different. Also might explain why I couldn't quite master the M2's DoF 'preview'....
So do I have a different finder in my M2? If so, any idea what might have been retro-fitted?
If it helps the serial is 101####. And also came with the Quickload kit....
Appreciate any assistance that folks could provide.
Joe AC
Well-known
It sounds like it may have an M6 finder installed.
Joe
Joe
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
You have described the finder frames for cameras such as the M6 and M4P. Clearly a previous owner had the finder frameline mask changed, probably to accommodate the 28mm lenses.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
An M2 that can show 28mm frame, nice...!
stillshunter
unlearning digital habits
Thanks guys! Sounds like a bonus so far (well it wasn't in the ad or the fine print)....
...I think so anyways. Having more framelines - esp. 28mm lines (an old fave) has got to be good. Or is it preferable to have retained the 'optical DoF indicator'?
Also any way to tell the between the M4P or M6 finder?...and should I care?
Turning out to be a good day!
Next to search harder for the little circle and left and right arrows to betray the retro-fit of a meter
...I think so anyways. Having more framelines - esp. 28mm lines (an old fave) has got to be good. Or is it preferable to have retained the 'optical DoF indicator'?
Also any way to tell the between the M4P or M6 finder?...and should I care?
Turning out to be a good day!
Next to search harder for the little circle and left and right arrows to betray the retro-fit of a meter
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
The M4 had no 28mm Framelines. It could be M6, M6TTL, M4P, or perhaps M4-2. If the framelines are about M2 size, then M4-2 or early M4P. If downsized, then M6 or M6TTL.
stillshunter
unlearning digital habits
Thanks Rob.
Mate she's my one and only so I have nothing to compare her to. Though just found this from our own Mr Gandy:
"Some dedicated Leica nuts are just sure their Leica will be better if it has another finder in it. Upgrading the M2 finder to the .72 M6 finder is easy."
Would love to know a little more about her history. That's what's so cool about these old girls. They've seen so much in their 50+ years (this one's a 1961 model) and yet her time with me just adds another line or two to the ongoing story.
danielmk2
Member
It could probably be the M4P's frameline.
If one upgrades his M2 finder to M6's, you'll see that the bottom line of the 35mm (and 28mm if it's 0.72x finder) frameline is not whole because that's the place where the meter indicator should be. If one wants the 35mm frameline to be perfect, the solution is to change the mask back to M4P, which is not quite reasonable if one wants to upgrade the finder with a perfect non-meter frameline.
Normally there are a few choices:
Upgrade to M3 finder, this is interesting, probably 50mm user's favourite.
Upgrade to M4 or M4-2 finder, not many people doing this.
Upgrade to M4P finder then probably plus an MP anti-flare upgrade, or directly upgrade to an MP 0.72x finder with a non-meter frame line. I see this quite often.
Of course upgrade to M6(TTL) without mask modification is not rare, though. There are 0.58x and 0.85x for choice, This is attractive!
When glass wearers upgrade the finder, they will probably also upgrade the eyepiece to M6's because it has rubber at the edge so that the glasses won't be scratched.
Edit: To see the difference between the M4P mask and M6 mask clearly, go to Leica's website and download the instruction of MP. There is the picture for the MP's finder, which is very similar to M6's. The picture of the frameline that OP has posted are the non-meter framelines, which is the same as M4P (the 0.72x one)
If one upgrades his M2 finder to M6's, you'll see that the bottom line of the 35mm (and 28mm if it's 0.72x finder) frameline is not whole because that's the place where the meter indicator should be. If one wants the 35mm frameline to be perfect, the solution is to change the mask back to M4P, which is not quite reasonable if one wants to upgrade the finder with a perfect non-meter frameline.
Normally there are a few choices:
Upgrade to M3 finder, this is interesting, probably 50mm user's favourite.
Upgrade to M4 or M4-2 finder, not many people doing this.
Upgrade to M4P finder then probably plus an MP anti-flare upgrade, or directly upgrade to an MP 0.72x finder with a non-meter frame line. I see this quite often.
Of course upgrade to M6(TTL) without mask modification is not rare, though. There are 0.58x and 0.85x for choice, This is attractive!
When glass wearers upgrade the finder, they will probably also upgrade the eyepiece to M6's because it has rubber at the edge so that the glasses won't be scratched.
Edit: To see the difference between the M4P mask and M6 mask clearly, go to Leica's website and download the instruction of MP. There is the picture for the MP's finder, which is very similar to M6's. The picture of the frameline that OP has posted are the non-meter framelines, which is the same as M4P (the 0.72x one)
ChrisN
Striving
Mark - congratulations on the M2! Cheers!
k__43
Registered Film User
I want 28mm lines too!
that's cool
Is it as easy as to change the masks or does it take a complete RF-assembly replacement?
that's cool
Is it as easy as to change the masks or does it take a complete RF-assembly replacement?
Richard G
Veteran
Glad you like it. I'd upgrade to the M2 finder.
stillshunter
unlearning digital habits
Thanks all. I'm a little embarrassed that I've been toting it around for a few months and only just realised In my defence it is my first M.....
In my defence it is my first M.....So you saying that I'd have a better time with the native M2 RF? Gotta say this one is pretty comfortable....
Range-rover
Veteran
Enjoy your M2, it's a Fine camera!
Range
Range
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
A couple things to check to see which viewfinder you have.
Look at the rear eyepiece of the viewfinder. Do you see a flat sided rectangle or a curved/rounded rectangle? The M2 has the flat sided rectangle, the M4 and up have the curved/rounded rectangle.
Look through the viewfinder itself. Do you see notches on the top and bottom of the rangefinder patch? The M2 had notches on the top and bottom of the rangefinder patch to help estimate DoF. They were gone in the M4.
Remove the lens and look at the rangefinder arm. If the round wheel that contacts with the lens focusing cam silver chrome or black? The M2 and M4 have the chrome wheels. The black wheel came later around the M4-2 or M4-P and up.
Look at the rear eyepiece of the viewfinder. Do you see a flat sided rectangle or a curved/rounded rectangle? The M2 has the flat sided rectangle, the M4 and up have the curved/rounded rectangle.
Look through the viewfinder itself. Do you see notches on the top and bottom of the rangefinder patch? The M2 had notches on the top and bottom of the rangefinder patch to help estimate DoF. They were gone in the M4.
Remove the lens and look at the rangefinder arm. If the round wheel that contacts with the lens focusing cam silver chrome or black? The M2 and M4 have the chrome wheels. The black wheel came later around the M4-2 or M4-P and up.
redisburning
Well-known
they're all fine.
I wouldn't spend money on a viewfinder change. A CLA if it hasn't had one in years? Sure. A replacement part if something breaks? Of course. But you've got a perfectly fine finder; albeit probably not the one you expected. I guess if 35mm is your favorite focal length, go for it.
Ljós
Well-known
Interesting, thank you!
Given the repairability of the M-platform one is likely to encounter hybrid forms... for example one of my M2 has the rounded viewfinder piece, yet DOF-notches also. And the viewfinder is not tinted a bit like my "original" M2, but almost clear and color-neutral. Framelines are identical on both, though.
Greetings, Ljós