Beginner film and chemicals for scanning

[lrochfort]

Hello all,

I've been shooting film for a few years, but now want to develop my own. I had some lessons 10 years ago, but am really starting from scratch.

I use both 120 and 35mm and will be scanning on an Epson 3170. I'd like to use Ilford film because I've not used it much in the past.

Can people make recommendations for what they think will be easy combinations for a beginner?

If it matters, I'm in England so often take pictures in overcast conditions.

Many thanks,
Laurence.

 

[NeeZee]

As usual it all depends on what you want to achieve but:

- shooting in overcast conditions means you'd be better of with a 400 iso film
- if you want ilford that leaves hp5, delta 400 or xp2
- forget xp2 cause it is a c-41 film
- hp5 is very forgiving in development, delta probably less so
- developer: d-76 is easy to use and i like it with hp5, rodinal is even easier to use but i personally hate the results with hp5

hp5 is not the best b/w film for scanning but not that bad either. A good iso 100 alternative would be APX 100 in Rodinal 1+50. Scans better due to thinner negatives imo.

My personal developing times at 20 degrees centigrade:

- hp5, 7:30 min in d-76 stock or 11 min in 1+1
- apx 100, 13 min in rodinal 1+50

 

[NeeZee]

and even more important: just try it and have fun!
it's pretty easy and from experience it's more likely to make one of the stupid obvious mistakes (open tank before fixing, put in fixer before developer etc.) than to get the times and temperature that wrong that the negatives are unusable...

 

[Bill Clark]

For film developing:

Tank with reel used to develop while the lights are on.

Load it in the dark.

To begin, getting used to the loading process:

In daylight, sacrifice a blank roll of film, load and load again and again until you get it down. Close your eyes and load the sacrificed film in daylight. How does it look? Try to have the lid and the tank in a spot you can easily get to to put the reel into after you are done loading in the dark.

For chemicals my recommendation to start on your film developing journey:

Developer = ID-11. This is a powder that needs to be mixed into what's called "stock" solution. Follow the instructions that's on the inside of the box. I develop usually 1+1. I take the stock developer and dilute 1 part stock to 1 part water, to get the working solution.

After developing, pour the developer out, rinse and I use a stop bath which neutralizes the developer. pour the stop bath back into the bottle as it can be used again. Then a fixer like Hypam. I dilute the stock hypam 1+4. The fixer should clear your film in about 3 to 4 minutes. I reuse the fixer until it takes too long to clear the film. So I store the working (diluted) fixer in a jar to reuse.

Then I wash the film. I change the water as Ilford recommends, perhaps a few more times and I usually do this process for around 20 minutes.

After washing I use a solution called Photo Flow. Put enough into the tank to submerge the film. Let stand a minutes or so. I also reuse the Photo Flow solution!

I'm cheap!

Then I take the reel out, pull the film off the reel and hand to dry. You can purchase a clip that will have edges that pierces the film to use for drying. I put the clip on a coat hanger, turn the loop on the top of the hanger and I use a shower rod in the bathroom for drying the film.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. I've been doing this for over 50 years! I'm an oldie moldie!

Have fun!

 

[Bobfrance]

I currently shoot Ilford film under the UK's cloudy conditions and I'd be happy to share my limited experience.

Firstly, if you have a smartphone then download the Massive Dev Chart for it. It's immensely useful.

I usually reduce the Massive Dev Chart's developing times by about 20%. This gives 'thinner' negs that scan better. But YMMV.

For convenience and consistency I prefer one-shot liquid developers. I'm finding Kodak HC-110 to work very nicely with Delta 100 and HP5. The only downside is that measuring out 16ml of something with the consistency of engine oil is not all that easy.

Rodinal is a great one shot developer, but I found it to be awful for HP5 (unless you like massive grain) so best avoided.

If you can find somewhere totally dark to load your film onto the spiral, like a small pantry, it is much better than a changing bag. Less fiddly and you are less likely to kink and damage your film.

Try to keep all your liquid temperatures consistent and only agitate gently - not like you're mixing a cocktail.

Bulldog clips with a paper clip through the end bent into the shape of a hook are perfect for hanging your film out to dry over the shower curtain rail.

Now you can mix a cocktail whilst you wait for your film to dry. 🙂




.

 

[lrochfort]

Thanks NeeZee.

Would you say Delta 400 scans better than HP5?

As usual it all depends on what you want to achieve but:

- shooting in overcast conditions means you'd be better of with a 400 iso film
- if you want ilford that leaves hp5, delta 400 or xp2
- forget xp2 cause it is a c-41 film
- hp5 is very forgiving in development, delta probably less so
- developer: d-76 is easy to use and i like it with hp5, rodinal is even easier to use but i personally hate the results with hp5

hp5 is not the best b/w film for scanning but not that bad either. A good iso 100 alternative would be APX 100 in Rodinal 1+50. Scans better due to thinner negatives imo.

My personal developing times at 20 degrees centigrade:

- hp5, 7:30 min in d-76 stock or 11 min in 1+1
- apx 100, 13 min in rodinal 1+50

 

[lrochfort]

Hi Bill,

I'm cheap too!

So developer you can't reuse, but stop and fixer you can?

How do I know when the stop and fixer are taking too long and should be replaced?

Cheers,
Laurence.

For film developing:

Tank with reel used to develop while the lights are on.

Load it in the dark.

To begin, getting used to the loading process:

In daylight, sacrifice a blank roll of film, load and load again and again until you get it down. Close your eyes and load the sacrificed film in daylight. How does it look? Try to have the lid and the tank in a spot you can easily get to to put the reel into after you are done loading in the dark.

For chemicals my recommendation to start on your film developing journey:

Developer = ID-11. This is a powder that needs to be mixed into what's called "stock" solution. Follow the instructions that's on the inside of the box. I develop usually 1+1. I take the stock developer and dilute 1 part stock to 1 part water, to get the working solution.

After developing, pour the developer out, rinse and I use a stop bath which neutralizes the developer. pour the stop bath back into the bottle as it can be used again. Then a fixer like Hypam. I dilute the stock hypam 1+4. The fixer should clear your film in about 3 to 4 minutes. I reuse the fixer until it takes too long to clear the film. So I store the working (diluted) fixer in a jar to reuse.

Then I wash the film. I change the water as Ilford recommends, perhaps a few more times and I usually do this process for around 20 minutes.

After washing I use a solution called Photo Flow. Put enough into the tank to submerge the film. Let stand a minutes or so. I also reuse the Photo Flow solution!

I'm cheap!

Then I take the reel out, pull the film off the reel and hand to dry. You can purchase a clip that will have edges that pierces the film to use for drying. I put the clip on a coat hanger, turn the loop on the top of the hanger and I use a shower rod in the bathroom for drying the film.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. I've been doing this for over 50 years! I'm an oldie moldie!

Have fun!

 

[lrochfort]

Hi Bob,

I took a look at your site and like the photos you have there, they seem to have some contrast and interest even in grey weather. Thus far I've only sent my negatives to a lab. Are there any techniques you use during during and after processing?

Purely during exposure, I found it took a bit of experimentation on my part in grey weather not to get negatives that were just a dull grey smudge with Kodak and Fuji.

Cheers,
Laurence.

I currently shoot Ilford film under the UK's cloudy conditions and I'd be happy to share my limited experience.

Firstly, if you have a smartphone then download the Massive Dev Chart for it. It's immensely useful.

I usually reduce the Massive Dev Chart's developing times by about 20%. This gives 'thinner' negs that scan better. But YMMV.

For convenience and consistency I prefer one-shot liquid developers. I'm finding Kodak HC-110 to work very nicely with Delta 100 and HP5. The only downside is that measuring out 16ml of something with the consistency of engine oil is not all that easy.

Rodinal is a great one shot developer, but I found it to be awful for HP5 (unless you like massive grain) so best avoided.

If you can find somewhere totally dark to load your film onto the spiral, like a small pantry, it is much better than a changing bag. Less fiddly and you are less likely to kink and damage your film.

Try to keep all your liquid temperatures consistent and only agitate gently - not like you're mixing a cocktail.

Bulldog clips with a paper clip through the end bent into the shape of a hook are perfect for hanging your film out to dry over the shower curtain rail.

Now you can mix a cocktail whilst you wait for your film to dry. 🙂




.

 

[Bobfrance]

Hi Bob,

I took a look at your site and like the photos you have there, they seem to have some contrast and interest even in grey weather. Thus far I've only sent my negatives to a lab. Are there any techniques you use during during and after processing?

Purely during exposure, I found it took a bit of experimentation on my part in grey weather not to get negatives that were just a dull grey smudge with Kodak and Fuji.

Cheers,
Laurence.

Hi Laurance,

I actually prefer overcast weather for photography. Luckily I live in Manchester, so there's no shortage of clouds!

In my experience the type of film and chemistry used doesn't alter the contrast of a neg all that much. Only the sunshine really does that.
Some films are good for combating a contrasty situation such as Ilford PanF in Perceptol, but that's rarely an issue in the UK.

I find I can enhance the contrast of my shots quite effectively when post processing in Lightroom. Conversely I find it is much harder to reduce the contrast from an overly contrasty neg.

It's important to remember, that for digital post-processing, you need to start with a good scan. If you can, scan as a 16 bit greyscale file. You will find you record a lot more exposure latitude into the file and may be surprised at the range of recoverable highlights and lowlights available.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask me whatever you like. 🙂

Bob.

 

[Sparrow]

I agree about Manchester, and as Bob says don't bother too much about the contrast and tonality of the neg. As long as the histogram is within the range of film and developer any graphic shortcomings can be dealt with later in the pre-press bit, it's just that photoshop replaces all that buggering about in a smelly darkroom these days.

I've been migrating to xp2 in the last couple of years because its so easy to scan and is almost un-blowable in the highlights ...

PS to avoid confusion I'm not in Manchester, but Yorkshire ... currently 9th in the medal table 😉

 

[Jockos]

XP2 might not be such a bad suggestion for a beginner, although both films and chemicals are a bit more expensive, development is not harder, and much more standardized.
And since it's monochrome film, any there won't be any COLOR shifts if you screw up 😀

 

[Bill Clark]

I don't reuse developer. That's one item I splurge on and use fresh with each film developed. I believe this method provides me with consistent results.

Get a stop bath that has a yellow color to it as it will change to purple when exhausted.

For film, fixer lasts me quite long. When it takes too long, double the usual fixing time, I throw it away. You may read ideas on reclaiming the silver in the solution or pollution but I use maybe two quarts of stock a year.

Hope I helped you.

 

[newtorf]

I use Kodak Indicator Stop. Dilute 8ml to 480ml, and reuse it forever - till I feel the color faded away a little bit then I add a littie bit stop bath concentrator.

I use Ilford rapid fixer. Dilute 96ml to 480ml, and reuse it for 14 rolls of 35mm films. I believe it can fix more, but I am just on the conservative side.

As for developer, I use HC-110, one shot only. But I dilute 7.5ml syrup to 480ml (Dil H) and develop two rolls of 35mm films instead of the recommended one roll. No problem so far.

Hi Bill,

I'm cheap too!

So developer you can't reuse, but stop and fixer you can?

How do I know when the stop and fixer are taking too long and should be replaced?

Cheers,
Laurence.

 

[filmfan]

Tri-X + D76

I use Sprint stop bath and fixer. Others work just as well.

 

[retrochick]

I also second HP5. It's a great versatile film. I've had good success pushing it to 1600 as well.

 

[lrochfort]

Thanks for the recommendations everyone, looks I need to Google the various chemicals and get an idea of how they differ.

Is it best to stick with all chemicals from one manufacturer?

It sounds like so long as I don't completely mess up most of my room for manipulation will be in post-processing.

 

[lrochfort]

Push processing may be getting ahead of myself right now, but it's something I've always been curious about.

Why would one want to push a film rather than picking another rated at that speed?

I also second HP5. It's a great versatile film. I've had good success pushing it to 1600 as well.

 

[BobYIL]

If you start with HP5 + ID-11 (D-76) combination and master it for straight and 1:1 dilutions for speeds from ISO 320 to 800, then you may find them being still your favorite even after many years. (From someone who had started with the HP3 + D76 way back in 1963)

 

[newtorf]

Do not have to be from the same manufacturer. However, it is generally recommended that you stick with one chemical for a while to get familiar with it. I stick with Kodak HC-110 and Ilford rapid fixer since I started to develop on my own. I do have other developers but have never tried them.

Thanks for the recommendations everyone, looks I need to Google the various chemicals and get an idea of how they differ.

Is it best to stick with all chemicals from one manufacturer?

It sounds like so long as I don't completely mess up most of my room for manipulation will be in post-processing.

 

[newtorf]

Film choices are limited, usually 100/400/1000. If you want something else like 1600/3200, you often have to push.

Push processing may be getting ahead of myself right now, but it's something I've always been curious about.

Why would one want to push a film rather than picking another rated at that speed?