JohnTF
Veteran
Fuji RF's are excellent, prices can be quite reasonable.
Pentax and Mamiya are often selling at ludicrous prices.
I did find a Baby Graflex with 6x9 back for $150, and sent it along to an excellent former model an excellent photographer, Schneider lens as I recall.
I much prefer 6x9cm to 6x7. I believe I saw a Fuji G680 which is rare in the US. I really like the GSW 690.
Regards, John
Pentax and Mamiya are often selling at ludicrous prices.
I did find a Baby Graflex with 6x9 back for $150, and sent it along to an excellent former model an excellent photographer, Schneider lens as I recall.
I much prefer 6x9cm to 6x7. I believe I saw a Fuji G680 which is rare in the US. I really like the GSW 690.
Regards, John
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That merely goes to tell that markets are regional - hereabouts, Fuji RFs tend to sell for double or thrice the price of a working Pentax 67 or RB67 kit, and even a Baby Graflex will (given its exotic rarity status in Europe) sell for more than these.
And there is no end to that trend. The EU customs offices have put their heavy foot on ebay purchases from overseas and many US and Japanese sellers have been forced to use ridiculously expensive overseas shipping options after the attempted air mail plane bombings some two or three years ago. This has put ebay out of duty in its former role as a global equalizer - as long as Japanese or US items aren't at least 20% (import tax) plus $60 (shipping) cheaper than the same object from an EU seller, they cannot compete any more...
thegman
Veteran
Maybe not what you want to hear, but why not shoot 6x6 and crop a little off the top/bottom and you get the same aspect ratio as 6x7. Resolution lost is minimal, you get more shots per roll, and a greater choice of well priced cameras. $200 buys a good condition Yashica Mat, or even a user Rolleiflex T.
thegman
Veteran
Yes, I did notice that, but he may be in the market for something more portable.
kuzano
Veteran
BTDT... with most RF....
BTDT... with most RF....
Mamiya Press... backs for 645, 66, 67,6X9. System camera with no meter and no interlinks. have to:
1. cock shutter
2. set shutter speed
3. set aperture-- both via handheld meter
4. focus by Rangefinder (very accurate when properly calibrated)
5. Interchangeable lenses 50mm, 65mm, 75mm, 100mm, 127mm, 150mm, 180mm and 250mm.
big, bulky, but tons of used inventory, so reasonable prices. Some customs built from Mamiya components.. as in 6X12 cm.
Mamiya, Bronica, Pentax all have 6X7 SLR models. Bronica model is the G1. Bronica lenses have a leaf shutter in lens advantage for flash synch.
Inventory of used in the three above is good on the internet, so most are reasonably priced.
Let me tell you where I ended up. First... hand held metering is a preference of mine. I like a little lens interchangeability. So I ended up shooting the old Texas Leica Fujica Rangefinders. Great glass.
I finally settled on the Fujica GL690.... The 67 counterpart is the GM690.
For two lenses focal lengths, I have the 65mm lens, and the 100mm lens. Both of these lenses can be used on the GL and the GM model bodies.
The GL and GM bodies are identical in size, but I opted for the 690, because I am more likely to shoot 690... same aspect ratio 2:3 as in 35mm film. I crop for 6X7, and overall, I only lose one frame on a roll of 120 by shooting the larger format.
I don't think the frame count for 220 enters into the decision, because I believe all the emulsions for 220 have disappeared????
The GL and GM models have two shutter releases. One on top, and one on the front for shooting vertical.
The big Fuji's have been an optimal decision for me, and how I shoot. The 690 format is not overly costly, and since the cameras are the same size anyway...well.
If I had the motivation to do more with 6x7, I would probably just get the GM body and since the lenses interchange, I could swap lenses and bodies.
ALL the GW and GSW lighter bodies come in 6X7, 6X8, and 6X9, with fixed lenses of 65mm or 90mm. But you would need four of those cameras to have the flexibility I would have with two interchangeable lens bodies and the two lenses.
However, you could carry two GW or two GSW fixed lens bodies at just about the same weight at one interchangeable body and two lenses.
An advantage with the GW choices would be the EBC lens coatings.
However, I am perfectly happy with the older coatings on the interchangeable lenses. They only made one EBC coated lens for the interchangeables... the Automatic Aperture Priority metered AE100 lens. Oh... I have that lens. Hmmm?
BTDT... with most RF....
Mamiya Press... backs for 645, 66, 67,6X9. System camera with no meter and no interlinks. have to:
1. cock shutter
2. set shutter speed
3. set aperture-- both via handheld meter
4. focus by Rangefinder (very accurate when properly calibrated)
5. Interchangeable lenses 50mm, 65mm, 75mm, 100mm, 127mm, 150mm, 180mm and 250mm.
big, bulky, but tons of used inventory, so reasonable prices. Some customs built from Mamiya components.. as in 6X12 cm.
Mamiya, Bronica, Pentax all have 6X7 SLR models. Bronica model is the G1. Bronica lenses have a leaf shutter in lens advantage for flash synch.
Inventory of used in the three above is good on the internet, so most are reasonably priced.
Let me tell you where I ended up. First... hand held metering is a preference of mine. I like a little lens interchangeability. So I ended up shooting the old Texas Leica Fujica Rangefinders. Great glass.
I finally settled on the Fujica GL690.... The 67 counterpart is the GM690.
For two lenses focal lengths, I have the 65mm lens, and the 100mm lens. Both of these lenses can be used on the GL and the GM model bodies.
The GL and GM bodies are identical in size, but I opted for the 690, because I am more likely to shoot 690... same aspect ratio 2:3 as in 35mm film. I crop for 6X7, and overall, I only lose one frame on a roll of 120 by shooting the larger format.
I don't think the frame count for 220 enters into the decision, because I believe all the emulsions for 220 have disappeared????
The GL and GM models have two shutter releases. One on top, and one on the front for shooting vertical.
The big Fuji's have been an optimal decision for me, and how I shoot. The 690 format is not overly costly, and since the cameras are the same size anyway...well.
If I had the motivation to do more with 6x7, I would probably just get the GM body and since the lenses interchange, I could swap lenses and bodies.
ALL the GW and GSW lighter bodies come in 6X7, 6X8, and 6X9, with fixed lenses of 65mm or 90mm. But you would need four of those cameras to have the flexibility I would have with two interchangeable lens bodies and the two lenses.
However, you could carry two GW or two GSW fixed lens bodies at just about the same weight at one interchangeable body and two lenses.
An advantage with the GW choices would be the EBC lens coatings.
However, I am perfectly happy with the older coatings on the interchangeable lenses. They only made one EBC coated lens for the interchangeables... the Automatic Aperture Priority metered AE100 lens. Oh... I have that lens. Hmmm?
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
So do the Mamiya RB and RZ, by the way.
Sure about that? I had the impression that 6x8 was only introduced with the III, or maybe late into the II series - the box of my GSW II is only titled 670/690.
Monz
Monz
Once there were giants by *monz*, on Flickr
The Koni-Omegaflex M is one of the largest twin lens reflex (TLR) cameras ever made. It was produced from 1968 to 1975 (?). Unlike most TLRs, it has a 6x7 interchangeable back and there are four interchangeable lenses available: 58mm f5.6, 90mm f3.5 (as shown in photo), 135mm f3.5 and 180mm f4.5.
Probably not the cheapest 6x7 though....
NeeZee
Well-known
Problem is the cheaper portable 6x6 solution all have normal lenses (even a bit 'longer' after cropping). I need something between 28mm and 35mm speaking in 35mm FOV.
I could of course mount the 50mm flektogon on my Pentacon Six and glue a small stripe of cardboard to the ground glass to have a 6x5 finder and crop in pp, but well, I don't really love that camera...
RObert Budding
D'oh!
Mamiya RB. Leaf shutter lenses flash sync at all speeds.
Eric T
Well-known
I have been down this road and I hope others can learn from my experience.
First, avoid Kiev. Other than an incredibly sharp 65mm Arsat lens, the rest of it is too unreliable.
Second, avoid old folders. I have an Iskra 2 that provides great images but it is hard to find service when needed. The focusing ring on it is too stiff. I have tried a Bessa II and a Moskva 5 but the film plane doesn't stay flat despite a few tries at fixes.
I wish I had started with a Pentax 67. Prices are great now. It is too large for me so now I use a Mamiya 7ii and Fuji GF670. Those are both terrific.
First, avoid Kiev. Other than an incredibly sharp 65mm Arsat lens, the rest of it is too unreliable.
Second, avoid old folders. I have an Iskra 2 that provides great images but it is hard to find service when needed. The focusing ring on it is too stiff. I have tried a Bessa II and a Moskva 5 but the film plane doesn't stay flat despite a few tries at fixes.
I wish I had started with a Pentax 67. Prices are great now. It is too large for me so now I use a Mamiya 7ii and Fuji GF670. Those are both terrific.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hello there,
lately I'm considering to buy a 6x7 medium format camera/(system?) because I really like the format and find the 6x6 of my Pentacon more and more limiting. As I'm a student I'm looking for a cheap alternative (<=200€) to the 'usual suspects (mamiya 7II, Plaubel Makina, etc...). I would prefer RF but SLR wouldn't be a deal breaker. More importantly I want to use it with a focal length of a about 65mm (35mm FOV eq. in 135 format). As far as I know classic folders weren't produced for this format and they usually have a longer lens anyway. What do you guys think of the various press cameras (mamiya press, koni omega etc.)? I know they are bulky but how is the quality of the lenses? Or are there other alternatives? (except using 6x9, blocking part of the viewfinder and wasting precious film).
If you can live with a slightly narrower format (95mm, i.e. 50mm-equivalent) and have a bit of time, you could wait a while for a Linhof 220. It's a quirky camera with the vertical format and pistol grip, ergonomics are very good, the lens is outstanding and the view/rangefinder is good too. The Rodenstock lens is in fact so good that it's now made again for the Alpa.
You can find them around 200-250 EUR if you wait a bit, sometimes a lot lower, especially in Europe/Germany. (We've had a thread about them here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89794)
Other than that I'd recommend a Pentax 67, or a press camera. Both the Koni-Omega and the Mamiya Universal press kits are going to be pretty uncommon and relatively expensive in Germany though (the classic medium format press camera in Germany was the Rolleiflex).
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Plus one.
I also went this route, but I own both the GM670 and GL690. With these two bodies and only 3 lenses I get 6 FOV's. BTW the G690BL in my signature is an extra body. I prefer the later models that have less cluttered VF'ers and a bit more magnification. The second shutter release I find handy.
I often carry two of these big Fuji's using a Black Rapid sling strap and a neck strap. The single coated glass is really great for B&W. The 100/3.5 I call the "King Of The Tessars," and close focused wide open its a bokeh machine.
Cal
NeeZee
Well-known
Thanks again everyone for your contributions.
As it will take 1 or 2 months till i have the cash to buy something, I'll have some time to digest all the info. I must say that at the moment I'm really drawn to the press cameras as I don't need a fast lens (no Bokeh-guy here) and with their grips they also look quite suitable for some handheld flash work (they are called press cameras for a reason I guess), which I'm getting into lately. Apart from that I just find them interestingly different from the cameras I own and I definitely at least wanna try if they suit me. Now to find one in Germany/EU looks like the hardest part...
As it will take 1 or 2 months till i have the cash to buy something, I'll have some time to digest all the info. I must say that at the moment I'm really drawn to the press cameras as I don't need a fast lens (no Bokeh-guy here) and with their grips they also look quite suitable for some handheld flash work (they are called press cameras for a reason I guess), which I'm getting into lately. Apart from that I just find them interestingly different from the cameras I own and I definitely at least wanna try if they suit me. Now to find one in Germany/EU looks like the hardest part...
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The Mamiya Universal and Super 23 seem to have been not that uncommon in Germany, going by the number traded on German ebay. The Fujis aren't that rare either, but go for a much higher price than in Japan.
NeeZee
Well-known
Just noticed that, too. But if it's gonna be ebay, I will definitely wait for a real auction instead of BIN, should be possible to get one well under 200 then I think...
JohnTF
Veteran
Quite right, I used to be quite surprised to see some rather low cost cameras for sale at high prices in central Europe, and sometimes the other way.
In the US, the Graflexes used to sell locally here for about half, I even saw a mint Crown with Schneider go for $150, and would have bought it but was slower on the wallet that another buyer.
I had some friends working at SkodaFoto in Prague and I sent him a gift of a black Graphic as he collected military cameras.
If you are dealing with very experienced shippers, like www.igorcamera.com, you should have decent results, but I have heard that EU Customs are taking their pounds of flesh.
My friend in Germany sent me an insured, and customs declared IIIg, and the post office just left it on my porch with lots of customs marks and the insurance value clearly marked-- no charge, no signature.
I have several of the large Fuji's, still like the 6x9 format, but learned to also love the 6x4.5 Fujis, including the fixed lens very wide-- I recall seeing a very interesting image while walking on the Right Bank in Paris, and was very happy I had the folder with a couple rolls of film in my pocket-- shot a roll and came away with an 11x14 image that pleased me.
Regards, John
oftheherd
Veteran
I have had a Mamiya Super Press 23 for over 35 years and like it very much. When I was younger and dumber, and had a stronger back, it got a lot of use. And that with only the 100mm and 65mm lenses. I now have the 50mm, 150mm and 250mm f/5 lenses. The 50mm is fairly heavy, and the 250 just about requires a wheel mounted tripod to carry and use. My Super Press 23 has given me a lot of photos I really like, and I like the 6x7 format. You can make some suprisingly large enlargements with these cameras and lenses.
I know a lot of people don't like folders. It is hard to find a folder in 6x7, but they do exist. You also have to be careful about its condition. You may end up buying and selling some before you get what pleases you. But I would advise not to dismiss folders too quickly. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to rig a 6x9 with a mask on the film plane as well as the finder. And if you haven't tried it, you may find you like the 6x9 as well. It's not a bad format, and can grow on you.
There are also a lot of 9x12 folders. 6x9 and I think I have seen 6x7 folders can be used with roll film adapters. I am not sure about the 6x7, but there are 6x9. For the 9x12 folders, you can get aux lenses for short telephoto and not so short wide-angle. You must loose a little resolution, but probably no so much. I have all that, but haven't used it enough to be able to comment. The 9x12 I like because it is almost a 4x5 and 4x5 can easily be cut down to 9x12 with little film loss. You do have to be patient though for cut film backs (be sure they have film septums) and roll film holders.
Ebay prices fluctuate on the 9x12s. Since there has been more mention of them lately, by me and others on forums, it seems many ebay sellers have jacked up their prices. I don't think it has gotten popular enough yet to make many sales at the inflated prices. BTW, there are 9x12 with after-market RF. Some straight folders are RF as well. But again, not many in 6x7.
Other than the price maybe being a deal breaker, the Super Press 23 may be more what you are looking for camera and lens wise. I have sure enjoyed using mine.
I know a lot of people don't like folders. It is hard to find a folder in 6x7, but they do exist. You also have to be careful about its condition. You may end up buying and selling some before you get what pleases you. But I would advise not to dismiss folders too quickly. It probably wouldn't be too difficult to rig a 6x9 with a mask on the film plane as well as the finder. And if you haven't tried it, you may find you like the 6x9 as well. It's not a bad format, and can grow on you.
There are also a lot of 9x12 folders. 6x9 and I think I have seen 6x7 folders can be used with roll film adapters. I am not sure about the 6x7, but there are 6x9. For the 9x12 folders, you can get aux lenses for short telephoto and not so short wide-angle. You must loose a little resolution, but probably no so much. I have all that, but haven't used it enough to be able to comment. The 9x12 I like because it is almost a 4x5 and 4x5 can easily be cut down to 9x12 with little film loss. You do have to be patient though for cut film backs (be sure they have film septums) and roll film holders.
Ebay prices fluctuate on the 9x12s. Since there has been more mention of them lately, by me and others on forums, it seems many ebay sellers have jacked up their prices. I don't think it has gotten popular enough yet to make many sales at the inflated prices. BTW, there are 9x12 with after-market RF. Some straight folders are RF as well. But again, not many in 6x7.
Other than the price maybe being a deal breaker, the Super Press 23 may be more what you are looking for camera and lens wise. I have sure enjoyed using mine.