Dan Daniel
Well-known
I recently sent my 2.8C out for repair. The problem was that the lens board/focus rails had developed some slop. You could rock the lens panel a bit, feel it moving mainly on the wind side and near the bottom. Also when winding film, you could feel a little 'hitch' as the lens panel moved in response to the shutter cocking. The camera came back and at first everything felt good. But by the middle of the first test roll I felt something strange in winding- the hitch was back. Tried moving the lens panel- yep, rocking again.
When I sent the camera in, I was very clear: the focus/lens rocking is why I am sending this camera in. There were other things that I figured I'd have taken care of while he had it open, but all of the other issues were icing. When I spoke to the repairman after he had finished, I asked specifically if the rocking was gone. He said yes. He didn't say that the mechanism was worn, that it needed parts that he didn't have, anything along those lines.
Anyway, I called him up today. Now he is saying that the C is a very old camera and parts are hard to get. He is willing to look at it again.
So with all of this said, two questions for people here: Is fixing a slight rock/hitch in the focus/lens system of 2.8C difficult due to parts or other such issues? Is it unreasonable to expect this camera to not have the rocking?
And would you send a camera back to the same repairman? Or is this a waste of time? Do I go elsewhere, or start looking for a body in better shape to transfer what is an amazing lens?
I won't name the repairman at this point, but he is well-known.
When I sent the camera in, I was very clear: the focus/lens rocking is why I am sending this camera in. There were other things that I figured I'd have taken care of while he had it open, but all of the other issues were icing. When I spoke to the repairman after he had finished, I asked specifically if the rocking was gone. He said yes. He didn't say that the mechanism was worn, that it needed parts that he didn't have, anything along those lines.
Anyway, I called him up today. Now he is saying that the C is a very old camera and parts are hard to get. He is willing to look at it again.
So with all of this said, two questions for people here: Is fixing a slight rock/hitch in the focus/lens system of 2.8C difficult due to parts or other such issues? Is it unreasonable to expect this camera to not have the rocking?
And would you send a camera back to the same repairman? Or is this a waste of time? Do I go elsewhere, or start looking for a body in better shape to transfer what is an amazing lens?
I won't name the repairman at this point, but he is well-known.
Vickko
Veteran
It is stories like this that motivated me to fix my own.
It is hard to say that the focus rails / shaft & bearings could have worn so much that they are sloppy. It could be that they can be tightened up. Or the proper lubricant put in to address any play.
Would I send it back? Not sure that I want him tinkering with it twice, considering he (I assume it is a "he") didn't get it right the first time.
It is hard to say that the focus rails / shaft & bearings could have worn so much that they are sloppy. It could be that they can be tightened up. Or the proper lubricant put in to address any play.
Would I send it back? Not sure that I want him tinkering with it twice, considering he (I assume it is a "he") didn't get it right the first time.
peter_n
Veteran
I would send it back if he would pay the return shipping. If it still doesn't work after that I'd request a full refund since there was apparently no disclosure of worn parts that were irreplaceable until it malfunctioned on return. It seems he tried to get away with it and he sounds like a deceitful person.
Beemermark
Veteran
I'd say that if you have "rocking" in the rails it is because they are very, very worn. And yes, it would probably be impossible to get parts for a camera that is over half a century old.
Does the "rocking" make the camera unusable? Are pictures out of focus? Does it make any difference? If the answer is yes then I would ask for a refund. If no, then I'd just use the camera.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
What has me confused is that the repairman was asked if the issue was fixed and he said yes. He also, without authorization (my note said that I wanted prices only), put in a new mirror and a new spool knob. For a very experienced repairman to add new parts to a camera whose central mechanism, the customer's primary reason for service, is worn out strikes me as, well.... strange?
Either he is padding a bill and grossly unethical, or he found the focus mechanism adjustable and made a mistake in re-assembly allowing it to come loose again?
My fear is that I mail out the camera and he either claims that it is unfixable and I need to pay shipping for its return, or that it needs a whole new round of repairs he expects me to pay for. I fear a hostage situation, having to pay ransom to get my baby back!
As to whether the camera is usable, I cannot say. I do not know whether the lens board returns to its 'proper' alignment or if it should be in the position it moves to when rocked or the wind lever is used. And I shouldn't have to even wonder about something like this. The lens board is loose, period.
farlymac
PF McFarland
You need a new repairman.
PF
PF
peter_n
Veteran
Yes I think maybe you do. Unauthorized parts replacement on top of poor work is not good. The issue perhaps is the amount you have invested in the repair, under $200 I would just eat it, over $300 I don't know what I'd do. FWIW I sent a 3.5E3 to Essex Camera in NJ and they did a stellar job for $170 including shipping. They are not a "big name" but they do awfully good work at a reasonable price.
Novembersierra
Venice, ITA
Relevant thread is relevant, so let me ask if you finally solved this issue.
My C seems to behave like yours and looking inside the camera on the focus side (4 screws under the leather, no rocket science) and moving gently the front panel, it seems like the screw holding the focus rails lets them sway a bit left and right, perhaps it's one mm too loose, which is actually pretty good in 60 years of life.
You can identify it as the bigger one with two slots for the spanner wrench (camera in picture is a 2.8B but as others shares the same parts)
Picture credit: wiratama.net
Nothing worn to report, should be the simplest repair ever if the one on the other side wasn't buried under the advance mechanism: no way I'm disassembling that. Looks like it's time for a CLA.
My C seems to behave like yours and looking inside the camera on the focus side (4 screws under the leather, no rocket science) and moving gently the front panel, it seems like the screw holding the focus rails lets them sway a bit left and right, perhaps it's one mm too loose, which is actually pretty good in 60 years of life.
You can identify it as the bigger one with two slots for the spanner wrench (camera in picture is a 2.8B but as others shares the same parts)
Picture credit: wiratama.net
Nothing worn to report, should be the simplest repair ever if the one on the other side wasn't buried under the advance mechanism: no way I'm disassembling that. Looks like it's time for a CLA.
I have a similar issue with the Tele project I've had for some time. That stalled when I was seeking a Gleitplattchen strip for the front cam follower, which I finally obtained a couple of weeks ago. I'd hoped to get onto it last week, but my wife wound up in hospital with emergency surgery needed so yet again the Tele waits...happily my wife is still in good condition though.
It is worth inspecting the condition of the gleitplattchen (or, gliding piece, as it is called in the manual), and I think they usually take more of the wear than the rear spring mounted follower next to the adjuster screws. This might be part of the issue with your C model.
The other point you raise about the rails is interesting, and it's been on my mind. The Flexes have a different arrangement for controlling the lens carriage to the Cords I've worked on previously. The basic design of the cams and followers is similar, however the Cords have a bottom rail that is adjustable for play, via the locating wedge underneath the lower removable rail. Adjusting wear with those is fairly easy, as you simply loosen the lockscrew for the wedge, and snug it in further on its ramp to eliminate any float in the carriage.
The Flex, on the other hand, has a lens a carriage that is guided by two centre posts screwed into the front of the body, which must provide better axial alignment. However as your photograph of the carriage rails reveals, there is no obvious means of adjusting out the side thrust generated by the sliding movement of the focus cams, which will manifest itself as up/down play if there is excessive play between the rails and the carriage.
It's important to get the freeplay correct with either type of Rollei. Too little is as bad as too much, as a small running clearance is needed to enable the carriage to move smoothly. I've been wondering if I will need to remove and peen the rails of my Tele to restore the proper clearance. Or maybe flatten them slightly via judicious application of my hydraulic press, and hand file them back to size? There is only a small (half a mill, perhaps?) amount of side thrust, however this means the cam action is not being immediately applied to extending the lens board when the focus knob is actuated, and this will have some effect on focus accuracy across the film gate. Incidentally, this is one of the things that causes the lens board to "rock" slightly from left to right or top to bottom, particularly near the extremes of the focusing range. It's not uncommon, to varying degrees, in many Rolleis offered for sale but is not always noticed by sellers (or, perhaps, by buyers).
I'd as soon have mine in optimum adjustment, particularly as the Tele with its longer lenses is especially unforgiving of poor alignment, of course normal models should, ideally, have the right clearances also.
I might have more specific comments to make after addressing the problem with my own camera, providing no more unscheduled trips to the casualty department intervene.
Cheers
Brett
It is worth inspecting the condition of the gleitplattchen (or, gliding piece, as it is called in the manual), and I think they usually take more of the wear than the rear spring mounted follower next to the adjuster screws. This might be part of the issue with your C model.
The other point you raise about the rails is interesting, and it's been on my mind. The Flexes have a different arrangement for controlling the lens carriage to the Cords I've worked on previously. The basic design of the cams and followers is similar, however the Cords have a bottom rail that is adjustable for play, via the locating wedge underneath the lower removable rail. Adjusting wear with those is fairly easy, as you simply loosen the lockscrew for the wedge, and snug it in further on its ramp to eliminate any float in the carriage.
The Flex, on the other hand, has a lens a carriage that is guided by two centre posts screwed into the front of the body, which must provide better axial alignment. However as your photograph of the carriage rails reveals, there is no obvious means of adjusting out the side thrust generated by the sliding movement of the focus cams, which will manifest itself as up/down play if there is excessive play between the rails and the carriage.
It's important to get the freeplay correct with either type of Rollei. Too little is as bad as too much, as a small running clearance is needed to enable the carriage to move smoothly. I've been wondering if I will need to remove and peen the rails of my Tele to restore the proper clearance. Or maybe flatten them slightly via judicious application of my hydraulic press, and hand file them back to size? There is only a small (half a mill, perhaps?) amount of side thrust, however this means the cam action is not being immediately applied to extending the lens board when the focus knob is actuated, and this will have some effect on focus accuracy across the film gate. Incidentally, this is one of the things that causes the lens board to "rock" slightly from left to right or top to bottom, particularly near the extremes of the focusing range. It's not uncommon, to varying degrees, in many Rolleis offered for sale but is not always noticed by sellers (or, perhaps, by buyers).
I'd as soon have mine in optimum adjustment, particularly as the Tele with its longer lenses is especially unforgiving of poor alignment, of course normal models should, ideally, have the right clearances also.
I might have more specific comments to make after addressing the problem with my own camera, providing no more unscheduled trips to the casualty department intervene.
Cheers
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Try loosening the four screws on the front lens panel that hold the panel to the rails. Then put light inward pressure on the rails as you re-tighten them. This should reduce the side-to side play.
My 2.8C went to Fleenor and came back in good shape. There was still some front/back movement if I grabbed the lens panel and pulled/pushed it. Fleenor says that this is normal- the spring-loaded roller piece will allow for this under pressure but returns to its rightful position.
The focus rails on the 2.8C are unlike any other rails I have seen on Rolleis. I have been inside a range of Automats, a 3.5E-1, a 2.8A, and Rolleicords from III to Va. All had slots in the body for the top of the rail and an adjustable stop for the bottom of the rail. I didn't disassemble the C far enough to figure out how its system works. All in all, it looks like it joined the plastic collars on the shutter release and flash socket- a detour corrected.
My 2.8C went to Fleenor and came back in good shape. There was still some front/back movement if I grabbed the lens panel and pulled/pushed it. Fleenor says that this is normal- the spring-loaded roller piece will allow for this under pressure but returns to its rightful position.
The focus rails on the 2.8C are unlike any other rails I have seen on Rolleis. I have been inside a range of Automats, a 3.5E-1, a 2.8A, and Rolleicords from III to Va. All had slots in the body for the top of the rail and an adjustable stop for the bottom of the rail. I didn't disassemble the C far enough to figure out how its system works. All in all, it looks like it joined the plastic collars on the shutter release and flash socket- a detour corrected.
Thanks for the tip about the rails Dan, I'll bear that in mind!
Cheers
Brett
Cheers
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Gentle, Brett! And with the focus at infinity, meaning the rails furthest back into the body. If you do this at close focus, you can tilt the rails and it will bind on bringing the rails back.
Novembersierra
Venice, ITA
Last minute update: before going out for the CLA and thanks to a couple of days of break from another exam, I double checked the camera, removed the front panel (waiting for my new leather to arrive, she's still 'naked') and saw the lens board screws: they were a bit loose.
Not much, but not how they should be.
I then gently screwed them in place, reinstalled the panel noticing that now it's perfectly aligned with the body and voilà, it's not moving anymore. Looks like I fixed it!
So yes, I hope you have my same 'little' problem!
Not much, but not how they should be.
I then gently screwed them in place, reinstalled the panel noticing that now it's perfectly aligned with the body and voilà, it's not moving anymore. Looks like I fixed it!
So yes, I hope you have my same 'little' problem!