Not sure what is happening.

[apostasiometritis]

I don’t normally post anything, but I’m not sure what is exactly happening with this lens, so I’m looking for some opinions.

I should perhaps post this in the FSU section but it is as much as a Leica issue as much as a FSU one.

I recently got a Jupiter 3 in black finish which I intended for one of my Zorkis. At that point I had made my opinion and had decided to sell my Nokton 50 and M-4P.

Mount the Jupi on the Zorki, focus and.... infinity did not coincide. I checked with other Jupis and the camera seemed to be OK.

Out of curiosity, I mounted the J3 on the Leica and lo and behold, it was working. I thought that was really odd, so I decided to investigate.

I did fine tune adjustment at infinity (withought touching gain) and I checked focus with a laser pointer at min distance (1m) and the dots coincided perfectly. Same with a visual check at the moon (infinity).
I decided to shoot a roll and I got that 3 days ago and....

... bloody hell this Jupiter is awesome! It is soft at 1.5 and becomes sharp from 2 onwards, very sharp at 4. But most importantly, it focuses spot on. I think I get like 2cm backfocus at 1m, cannot be sure though as I shot my test at 1.5 and it is quite soft. It is so awesome, I just sold my 50 1.5 Nokton. For what it’s worth, it’s a GOMZ copy, as close as you can get to a new one, ’88 production. And to think I wanted to sell it not long ago....


Now, my question is:

I thought that russian lenses would agree with a Leica and a Zorki/Fed at infinity, it was certainly the case with my other FSU glass. This one does not agree with the Zorki. Moreover, if I adjust the Zorki at close distance for the J3, infinity is off. For the life of me I cannot understand why they would not agree at infinity. I thought that Leica standard called for smaller cam travel than the FSU copies.

Any ideas as to what is wrong with this copy?

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

You know.. with the russian lenses, if you knew when those guys got new bits for their lathes, that was the day you should buy also the lenses, Other days, maybe.. The days they are calling for new bits, forget about the products...

 

[ottluuk]

Maybe someone has adjusted the lens previously - or maybe some machinist had had a lucky dose of vodka?

 

[40oz]

People often have their Leicas over-hauled. Nobody does that to a Zorki. I'd guess your Leica is within spec and your Zorki could use adjustment. The J-3 delivers as advertised, however 🙂 Man I love that lens. The J-8 is no slouch either.

I wish American or German workers could turn out as fine a product sober as Ukraine workers do while on a drinking binge with new/old tooling. Boggles the mind how that kind of stereotype can exist in a day when we rely on Russian transport to our space station. I know the US can build a re-usable shuttle for earth orbit, but facts are facts - it's the Soyuz that has proved the winner in the space race. Could they do that if they were drunk and sloppy? Is it willful ignorance or just base prejudice that insists on posting that kind of idiocy?

I'll take your answer off the air 🙂

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Is it willful ignorance or just base prejudice?

Both. If fewer people read, listened to and watched tripe but rather got out and met other people, the world would be a happier place.

:angel:

 

[ottluuk]

---

I wish American or German workers could turn out as fine a product sober as Ukraine workers do while on a drinking binge with new/old tooling. Boggles the mind how that kind of stereotype can exist in a day when we rely on Russian transport to our space station. I know the US can build a re-usable shuttle for earth orbit, but facts are facts - it's the Soyuz that has proved the winner in the space race. Could they do that if they were drunk and sloppy? Is it willful ignorance or just base prejudice that insists on posting that kind of idiocy?
---

Well, I've grown up watching my country breaking out of the Soviet regime and I can tell you that low work ethics/culture as well as substance abuse were a stark reality in the USSR. Workplace theft and speculation with goods smuggled from factories was almost the norm. It had a lot to do with the collectivization of, well, every aspect of production. People had no incentives to keep their morale high - their private welfare depended very little how much effort they had put in. The working class was poor and that was it. It was the imperialists' fault. And when the communist promise failed to deliver its benefits, many fell into downright depression. Not all, of course. Obviously there were brilliant and motivated people in the USSR - but still, the occasional light-hearted drunk worker joke is hardly off the mark. BTW the space tech development in Russia was mostly powered by the Cold War - and paid for by the poverty of the working class. Poverty numbed with vodka.

IMHO, the fact that Jupiters are good lenses has more to do with them being straight copies of Zeiss designs, (even made with Zeiss tooling and materials in the early years) than the admirable qualities of their manufacturers.

That said, I use a J-8 myself. 🙂

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Well, I've grown up watching my country breaking out of the Soviet regime and I can tell you that low work ethics/culture as well as substance abuse were a stark reality in the USSR. Workplace theft and speculation with goods smuggled from factories was almost the norm. It had a lot to do with the collectivization of, well, every aspect of production. People had no incentives to keep their morale high - their private welfare depended very little how much effort they had put in. The working class was poor and that was it. It was the imperialists' fault. And when the communist promise failed to deliver its benefits, many fell into downright depression. Not all, of course. Obviously there were brilliant and motivated people in the USSR - but still, the occasional light-hearted drunk worker joke is hardly off the mark. BTW the space tech development in Russia was mostly powered by the Cold War - and paid for by the poverty of the working class. Poverty numbed with vodka.

IMHO, the fact that Jupiters are good lenses has more to do with them being straight copies of Zeiss designs, (even made with Zeiss tooling and materials in the early years) than the admirable qualities of their manufacturers.

That said, I use a J-8 myself. 🙂

For those "idealists" not liking the comments I made I have exactly the same opininon as my neighbor in estonia. I, as a Finn knew very well the practice of russian production. The space misiles were produced by lathes and tools and workers dedicated to quality, as they had special priviledges living in those "Space cities" such as Novosibirsk etc that during the cold war didn`t even exist on the maps... The normal production of cars, cameras etc was made as "five year plan" the quality didn`t matter, only quantity. The best of the best was reserved for export to USA and some countries where russians could have "real dollars" The black market inside russia was driven by fake dollars, printed propably in Italy.

 

[Range-rover]

Get yourself a Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander lens and be done with it.

Range

 

[apostasiometritis]

Get yourself a Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander lens and be done with it.

Range

But I don't want a Leica, Zeiss or Voigt. I just asked a question as to how it could be happening as it sort of contradicts the perceived notion that FSU lenses were built to the Contax standard.

To the point, this lens is bloody good. Soft & glowy at 1.5 and sharp from 2 onwards, like having 2 lenses really. I just got my second roll and there is absolutely no backfocus whatsoever, thought the distance scale is approx 2-3cm off at close distances (hence I thought it was backfocusing, sort of influenced my perception of the 1st images I got from it).

Ow well, can't have everything. But, if this was the best a "drunken", "thieving", "lazy" soviet could do in 1988, it is good enough for me.

PS.: Plus it looks bloody good on an M4-P.

 

[Bingley]

I don’t normally post anything, but I’m not sure what is exactly happening with this lens, so I’m looking for some opinions.

I should perhaps post this in the FSU section but it is as much as a Leica issue as much as a FSU one.

I recently got a Jupiter 3 in black finish which I intended for one of my Zorkis. At that point I had made my opinion and had decided to sell my Nokton 50 and M-4P.

Mount the Jupi on the Zorki, focus and.... infinity did not coincide. I checked with other Jupis and the camera seemed to be OK.

Out of curiosity, I mounted the J3 on the Leica and lo and behold, it was working. I thought that was really odd, so I decided to investigate.

I did fine tune adjustment at infinity (withought touching gain) and I checked focus with a laser pointer at min distance (1m) and the dots coincided perfectly. Same with a visual check at the moon (infinity).
I decided to shoot a roll and I got that 3 days ago and....

... bloody hell this Jupiter is awesome! It is soft at 1.5 and becomes sharp from 2 onwards, very sharp at 4. But most importantly, it focuses spot on. I think I get like 2cm backfocus at 1m, cannot be sure though as I shot my test at 1.5 and it is quite soft. It is so awesome, I just sold my 50 1.5 Nokton. For what it’s worth, it’s a GOMZ copy, as close as you can get to a new one, ’88 production. And to think I wanted to sell it not long ago....


Now, my question is:

I thought that russian lenses would agree with a Leica and a Zorki/Fed at infinity, it was certainly the case with my other FSU glass. This one does not agree with the Zorki. Moreover, if I adjust the Zorki at close distance for the J3, infinity is off. For the life of me I cannot understand why they would not agree at infinity. I thought that Leica standard called for smaller cam travel than the FSU copies.

Any ideas as to what is wrong with this copy?

It sounds like a problem with the Zorki rather than the J3. If the focusing is accurate on the M4-P and you have a good J3 sample (sounds like you do) why not use that combination and see if the Zorki can be adjusted?

 

[apostasiometritis]

It sounds like a problem with the Zorki rather than the J3. If the focusing is accurate on the M4-P and you have a good J3 sample (sounds like you do) why not use that combination and see if the Zorki can be adjusted?

Well, this Zorki is *deadly* accurate with all my M39 lenses, namely another J3, a J8, J9 & J12. I keep it in very good shape and because it is so easy to service it rarely misses a beat. It is actually my "proper" working camera and I have a couple of them lying about adjusted for Leica/Voigt lenses.

I have basically resigned trying to find out what is wrong with it. I'm keeping them as a 1 lens 1 cam combo.

I originally wanted to get a summicron for this M4-P, that would be nice. But the prices of 50 summis are now properly ridiculous.

I saw a hazy 50 full of surface marks with a broken aperture ring sell for £300 last week in the 'bay. If that is not silly I'm not sure what else is.