Canon LTM Canon 7 as first rangefinder?

Canon M39 M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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Tijmendal

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Hi,

Lately I've really wanted to get a rangefinder for my streetphotography, as I feel my film SLR's are a little too clunky. All the masters must've used a rangefinder for a reason, right?
I don't want to dish out the money for a Leica just yet I think (college student here), so I figured a Canon 7 would be a nice step in between. I shot with a Canonet and Yashica GSN, but didn't really like them (****ty build quality and automatic). LTM/m39 lenses are relatively quite cheap too (they go for around 100-150$ on the evilbay).
What do you guys think?
 
If you are on a budget, start with FSU RFs. If you can stretch your budget to 400-500, Canon RF's or Bessa R series are good choices.

I am a recent grad and I did exactly that: FSU > Canon RF > Leica M

If you want to use multiple focal lengths, Canon RFs are actually very good. I currently use Canon P and M4-2 and like both for different reasons. But remember, lenses make more difference than the body, which is just a light tight box.
 
I agree that the Canon 7 (or Canon P) makes an excellent first rangefinder for street work. That's basically how I got started. If you prefer a 35mm focal length lens for street photography, I'd go w/ the Canon 7, b/c the 35 framelines are easier to see than they are on the Canon P. If you prefer a 50, I think it's a wash as between the two Canon cameras.

The Canon 7 is a very robust, well-made rangefinder. Not quite as smooth in operation as a Leica M, but then it's a fraction of the price, too. The meter on the Canon 7 is so-so, so I wouldn't pass up a sample w/ a dead meter if the camera body was otherwise in good shape.
 
+1 for Canon 7. Should you move to an M system in the future, you can still use the LTM lenses with adaptors.

Leicas are indeed nicer to use, but I would not part with my Canon 7. While you are at it, look for Canon LTM lenses, which are excellent (I can speak for the one I have, 50/1.4.)

Randy
 
Canon 7 has the right spec and excellent build quality. But it is a bit bulky if that matters to your street shooting. You might consider some older Canon RF that has smaller/dimmer viewfinder but are more compact.
 
If you're a devout lover of history, yes, go for Canon.

If you are at all influenced by ergonomics, I'd back an old M. Or a more modern Voigtländer or ZI.

(And yes, I've owned/used all of them.)

Cheers,

R.
 
I have three CANON RFs (7, P and VTdl), they are beautiful cameras to handle and shoot pictures. But if you start and transition from SLR I recommend you start with a Bessa R.
 
Classique said:
If you are on a budget, start with FSU RFs. If you can stretch your budget to 400-500, Canon RF's or Bessa R series are good choices.

I am a recent grad and I did exactly that: FSU > Canon RF > Leica M
Click to expand...

This is what I've been thinking about too; the thing I really don't like about the FSU's are that the old ones have very bad viewfinders and that the new ones are just so extremely ugly. I didn't enjoy shooting with those and I really don't want to kill the rangefinder experience for me (meaning that, if I only shoot with not-so-good rangefinders, I'll probably start disliking them for no good reason).

I was planning on getting a Canon 7 and a 35mm lens. Any recommendations for a good 35mm lens in LTM?
 
Tijmendal said:
I was planning on getting a Canon 7 and a 35mm lens. Any recommendations for a good 35mm lens in LTM?
Click to expand...
There are lots of good 35mm lenses in LTM. If you're on a really tight budget, the Jupiter 12 is great value for money (though watch for oil on the blades). If you have slightly more to spend, I really like the Summaron 35, though as an old lens it's low in contrast and not the sharpest. Another good value for money lens is the Voigtlander Color Skopar 35 f2.5. Very sharp, very high contrast, and can be found for good value for money. The Voigtlander 35 f1.7 is even better, but will cost you more. There are also Canon lenses - I've never used a Canon 35 and therefore am not qualified to say anything on them.
 
Tijmendal said:
This is what I've been thinking about too; the thing I really don't like about the FSU's are that the old ones have very bad viewfinders and that the new ones are just so extremely ugly.
Click to expand...


I agree that some of the more recent FSU cameras can stop a clock, but not all of them. In my humble opinion the most important factor in an RF camera that you are actually going to use is for it to have the best viewfinder you can get; there's no point in having a superb RF camera if you can't see what you are shooting. Old screwmount Leicas are real jewels, but someone like me who wears glasses will have problems with the tiny squinty VF. The Canon P and 7 don't have adjustable VF's but they have a great finder image which is set to the equivalent of about 4' distance, so I can use them happily without glasses.

LeatherFED2.jpg

FED 2


LeatherZorki6.jpg

Zorki 6


Here are my two favourite Russki cameras, based on having a very good VF with dioptre adjustment. They started out with a crummy-looking patterned rubberized cloth covering, which is easily replaced by leather from Tandy's. What they don't have is slow speeds below 1/25. They can be found on ebay dirt cheap, and if you pick a vendor with a large positive feedback number, you will probably not have problems. And the FSU lenses are the best deal going.

Cheers,
Dez
 
Hi Dez,

Fed 2 and Zorki 6 are the two FSUs I've been trying to decide between.

Apart from the winder difference, what distinguishes the Fed 2 from the Zorki 6? Do you have a favourite, or at least one that is more usable?

Cheers,
Laurence.
 
Dez, that Fed 2 doesn't look too bad, but the lack of film advance lever isn't really appealing to me. I think I'll just dish out the little bit more for the Canon 7. It's simple and elegant. Shutter speed dial, shutter and film advance lever. That's it; I really like simplicity.
 
The Canon 7 is light years ahead of any FSU camera, nothing the Soviet Union has made comes remotely close. Canon's materials and workmanship are first rate, while Soviet cameras, well... aren't. I have repaired both types of cameras, and my main pocket camera now is an FED, so I do shoot FSU equipment, but I would never rely on it. My FSU cameras include the FED S, 1948 FED-Zorki, a Zorki 2, and a Kiev 2.

The viewfinder on the Canon 7 is large and bright, and it is uncluttered, you can select frame lines with a top-mounted dial, and the focal length will show up in the viewfinder. The Canon 7 has metal shutter curtains which never rot or get holes, a large percentage of FSU cameras I have bought needed the curtains replaced.

The Canon 7 operates very smoothly, it's arguable if a Leica M is smoother, I have 5 Leica M cameras, two feel smoother than my favorite Canon 7, the rest do not. My FSU cameras are rough and grindy beasts, but they do take good photos.

For the money, the Canon 7 is a bargain right now, they are ten times as good as any FSU camera, but luckily don't cost ten times as much.

The Bessas are also good cameras, but feel plasticky compared to the older Canon or FSU rangefinders. The Bessa R2 is a good deal, but Leica M mount lenses are not, the cheapest M lens will cost more than a clean Canon 7 with a good Canon LTM lens.

The Canon P is a similar camera to the Canon 7, but in my experience (I have had a dozen or so Canon P's) it is a little less smooth in operation, and the viewfinder is not nearly as good.

Of the cameras mentioned so far in this thread, the Canon 7 is the closest thing you will find to a Leica M, unless you find one of the very rare Yashica/Nicca YL rangefinders.
 
lrochfort said:
Hi Dez,

Fed 2 and Zorki 6 are the two FSUs I've been trying to decide between.

Apart from the winder difference, what distinguishes the Fed 2 from the Zorki 6? Do you have a favourite, or at least one that is more usable?

Cheers,
Laurence.
Click to expand...

They are quite similar. The Z6 is a little bit smaller, and has a swing-out back vs the removable back of the F2. Both have an excellent long-base rangefinder; the Z6 has a larger eyepiece aperture and a slight gold tone to the finder image that in my opinion makes it a bit better than that of the F2. The only FSU camera that has multiple frame lines and parallax correction is the large and rather expensive Leningrad motor-drive camera. I would tend to consider the Z6 as having the second-best finder of any FSU camera, second to the Leningrad.

I tend to think the F2 is prettier, but that's completely subjective of course. Most F2's have a grained vulcanite surface which looks good, but doesn't allow you to cover it in leather. I imagine you will be quite happy with either of these cameras.


Tijmendal said:
Dez, that Fed 2 doesn't look too bad, but the lack of film advance lever isn't really appealing to me. I think I'll just dish out the little bit more for the Canon 7. It's simple and elegant. Shutter speed dial, shutter and film advance lever. That's it; I really like simplicity.
Click to expand...

I suspect you can't go wrong with the Canon 7. I have had a few of them and really like the camera. It's kind of large, but the excellent finder with selectable framelines certainly makes up for it. It is actually unusual for one to have a dead meter. Canon did a good job on the selenium cell.


Cheers,
Dez
 
Frontman said:
The Canon 7 is light years ahead of any FSU camera, nothing the Soviet Union has made comes remotely close. Canon's materials and workmanship are first rate, while Soviet cameras, well... aren't. I have repaired both types of cameras, and my main pocket camera now is an FED, so I do shoot FSU equipment, but I would never rely on it. My FSU cameras include the FED S, 1948 FED-Zorki, a Zorki 2, and a Kiev 2.

The viewfinder on the Canon 7 is large and bright, and it is uncluttered, you can select frame lines with a top-mounted dial, and the focal length will show up in the viewfinder. The Canon 7 has metal shutter curtains which never rot or get holes, a large percentage of FSU cameras I have bought needed the curtains replaced.

The Canon 7 operates very smoothly, it's arguable if a Leica M is smoother, I have 5 Leica M cameras, two feel smoother than my favorite Canon 7, the rest do not. My FSU cameras are rough and grindy beasts, but they do take good photos.

For the money, the Canon 7 is a bargain right now, they are ten times as good as any FSU camera, but luckily don't cost ten times as much.

The Bessas are also good cameras, but feel plasticky compared to the older Canon or FSU rangefinders. The Bessa R2 is a good deal, but Leica M mount lenses are not, the cheapest M lens will cost more than a clean Canon 7 with a good Canon LTM lens.

The Canon P is a similar camera to the Canon 7, but in my experience (I have had a dozen or so Canon P's) it is a little less smooth in operation, and the viewfinder is not nearly as good.

Of the cameras mentioned so far in this thread, the Canon 7 is the closest thing you will find to a Leica M, unless you find one of the very rare Yashica/Nicca YL rangefinders.
Click to expand...


You have convinced me! I'll go buy a nicely used Canon 7! Thanks, this is exactly what I needed (or wanted?) to hear. 😀

EDIT: Would this be a good starting point:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-7-ran...266?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3a7bce13fa

There seems to be a rip in the curtain? In the description it says it's working though...

That lens seems to be going for around 200$ on the ebay and I'd really like a 35mm lens over a 50.
There seem to be different versions of the 35mm f/2.8; this one has very low serial number #43777. Anyone with experience with this version?
 
Tijmendal said:
You have convinced me! I'll go buy a nicely used Canon 7! Thanks, this is exactly what I needed (or wanted?) to hear. 😀

EDIT: Would this be a good starting point:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-7-ran...266?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3a7bce13fa

There seems to be a rip in the curtain? In the description it says it's working though...

That lens seems to be going for around 200$ on the ebay and I'd really like a 35mm lens over a 50.
There seem to be different versions of the 35mm f/2.8; this one has very low serial number #43777. Anyone with experience with this version?
Click to expand...

It looks like a good deal, wrinkles in the shutter curtains are not an issue, 90% of Canon 7 cameras have them. I have sold the same type of camera and lens on eBay for $400, you better get it before someone else here does.
 
I don't know whether it's still there but there was a Canon 7 with 50 1.8 in the RFF classifieds for $245. Might be worth reading through the ads to check if it's still available. I have no connection to the seller.
 
I also suggest that, because you're on a limited budget but serious, you go with something that has a Leica thread mount or M mount. The recent CV lenses are excellent. The bodies are good too, and you could later upgrade the body and go on using the lenses.

The Canon cameras were beautiful and are justifiable for collectors and enthusiasts, but they are old! 50 years, 60 years, 70 years. Do yourself a favor. Invest in lenses that will last and that can share the same body as newer lenses you buy.

Tom
 
I'm glad you're sticking to your plan; The best buy is in the middle when you buy a Canon.
FSU $50-100
Canon P or 7 - $200
Leica M - $1000

A Canon 7 or P is 10 times better than a FSU in quality, but only 2 or 3 times as costly. A Leica M is maybe 1 time better quality, equal ergonomics, and costs 5 times as much. Your best bang for your buck, with older cameras, are the Canons. A modern RF with a meter would be nice though, which I guess the Bessas have.
 
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