leiya107
Newbie
I'm new to this forum. So, hello everyone. And since as it's Christmas, I wish you all a very happy-snappy Christmas!
About 3 months ago, I acquired a used "good user" condition (aka quite beat up) Leica M4-2 from a Leica dealer in London (not gonna tell you who it was, but perhaps you can have some fun and games guessing who it was after reading my experience?) after having shot with a Voigtlander R2A for about a year and loved the rangefinder experience (and the film "workflow", from own development to scanning, not yet done printing though). I ordered it from their website. And when it arrived, all was well, except the 1/8 shutter speed which was more like 1/4. I was actually quite angry because I assumed a camera bought from a Leica dealer/repairer should be at least fully functional. I sent it back and they offered a free fix. So I started using the camera after a 3-week delay. I loved it very much and considered it a step up from my R2A even though there's no meter, as I found no meter actually makes the whole shooting process faster and exposure-wise more satisfactory (by avoiding unreasonable shutter speeds picked by Aperture-priority).
However, about a month ago, my wrist strap suddenly snapped and my lovely m4-2 dropped hard onto the ground. It's ironic because 99% of the time I don't use straps and as it turns out using straps are way more accident prone for me than going strapless. The accident knocked the rangefinder extremely out of place. So I took it back to that dealer/repairer for a repair. I gave them instructions as to what to fix on top of the obvious malfunctioning rangefinder (e.g. frameline selector being slightly loose, hence sometimes both 35 and 50 are visible; and a general cleaning). One week later, they gave me a quote for a service. So I suppose they gave it a full "CLA". About a week ago, they told me it had been fixed and I went there to pick up. Of course I checked the camera right there in the shop before I paid. I was actually quite happy with the service/CLA.
I came home and played with it for the next few days. And it was then I felt the camera might have become worse compared to before it was dropped:
1. I think the RF patch is quite a bit less contrasty than it used to be, making it harder to see. Perhaps it could be me seeing things - it could be just as contrasty as before and I just forgot. But is it possible that a cleaning of the RF mechanism can make it less contrasty/worse?
2. I noticed the frame lines don't move (as in no auto parallax correction): they're stuck at the same position from near focusing distance to infinity. Now, I'm around 60-70% sure the RF patch was contrastier before. But I'm not sure if the framelines actually moved before I dropped the camera. I never really pay close attention to the framing of a rangefinder, I concentrate more on the *timing* (isn't that the whole point of choosing RF over SLR or EVF?), so I really can't say the framelines auto-parallax-corrected before I dropped it. Are all Leica M's supposed to have auto parallax correction, or was the M4-2 so cheaply made that they skipped this feature? Or could it be that the repairer overlooked the faulty parallax correction? Also, how does the parallax correction look like? On my Voigtlander R2A, only the framelines move diagonally while the RF patch stays. I've seen YouTube videos on how Leica M9 focusing works and it looks like even the RF patch moves diagonally as well, hence the patch stays in the middle of the moving frame lines. On my M4-2, neither the framelines nor the patch move. They just stay the same. Should I go back and shout at the repairer (it will have to be after Christmas and New Year, so maybe I'll have waited too long and they might consider a new repair?)? Or is it a common trait of old Leicas (it's not that old, is it, 1979?) and I should just learn to live with it? Like I said, I pay full attention to timing and accurate focusing and almost no attention on framing anyway. So why bother?
I'm eager to hear your comments and advice! Thank you guys!
About 3 months ago, I acquired a used "good user" condition (aka quite beat up) Leica M4-2 from a Leica dealer in London (not gonna tell you who it was, but perhaps you can have some fun and games guessing who it was after reading my experience?) after having shot with a Voigtlander R2A for about a year and loved the rangefinder experience (and the film "workflow", from own development to scanning, not yet done printing though). I ordered it from their website. And when it arrived, all was well, except the 1/8 shutter speed which was more like 1/4. I was actually quite angry because I assumed a camera bought from a Leica dealer/repairer should be at least fully functional. I sent it back and they offered a free fix. So I started using the camera after a 3-week delay. I loved it very much and considered it a step up from my R2A even though there's no meter, as I found no meter actually makes the whole shooting process faster and exposure-wise more satisfactory (by avoiding unreasonable shutter speeds picked by Aperture-priority).
However, about a month ago, my wrist strap suddenly snapped and my lovely m4-2 dropped hard onto the ground. It's ironic because 99% of the time I don't use straps and as it turns out using straps are way more accident prone for me than going strapless. The accident knocked the rangefinder extremely out of place. So I took it back to that dealer/repairer for a repair. I gave them instructions as to what to fix on top of the obvious malfunctioning rangefinder (e.g. frameline selector being slightly loose, hence sometimes both 35 and 50 are visible; and a general cleaning). One week later, they gave me a quote for a service. So I suppose they gave it a full "CLA". About a week ago, they told me it had been fixed and I went there to pick up. Of course I checked the camera right there in the shop before I paid. I was actually quite happy with the service/CLA.
I came home and played with it for the next few days. And it was then I felt the camera might have become worse compared to before it was dropped:
1. I think the RF patch is quite a bit less contrasty than it used to be, making it harder to see. Perhaps it could be me seeing things - it could be just as contrasty as before and I just forgot. But is it possible that a cleaning of the RF mechanism can make it less contrasty/worse?
2. I noticed the frame lines don't move (as in no auto parallax correction): they're stuck at the same position from near focusing distance to infinity. Now, I'm around 60-70% sure the RF patch was contrastier before. But I'm not sure if the framelines actually moved before I dropped the camera. I never really pay close attention to the framing of a rangefinder, I concentrate more on the *timing* (isn't that the whole point of choosing RF over SLR or EVF?), so I really can't say the framelines auto-parallax-corrected before I dropped it. Are all Leica M's supposed to have auto parallax correction, or was the M4-2 so cheaply made that they skipped this feature? Or could it be that the repairer overlooked the faulty parallax correction? Also, how does the parallax correction look like? On my Voigtlander R2A, only the framelines move diagonally while the RF patch stays. I've seen YouTube videos on how Leica M9 focusing works and it looks like even the RF patch moves diagonally as well, hence the patch stays in the middle of the moving frame lines. On my M4-2, neither the framelines nor the patch move. They just stay the same. Should I go back and shout at the repairer (it will have to be after Christmas and New Year, so maybe I'll have waited too long and they might consider a new repair?)? Or is it a common trait of old Leicas (it's not that old, is it, 1979?) and I should just learn to live with it? Like I said, I pay full attention to timing and accurate focusing and almost no attention on framing anyway. So why bother?
I'm eager to hear your comments and advice! Thank you guys!
Frontman
Well-known
Your M4-2 does have parallax correction, and if it doesn't work your repairer must of overlooked something when it was put back together. As for the contrast issue, you can bring it up with the them, I don't know what they would have done to mess that up, but then again, who knows? But you should return it for the parallax issue, there is no excuse for it not to work.
leiya107
Newbie
Thanks for the reply!! Unfortunately the shop is closed until Jan 8! I hope they're kind enough to take it back for a re-repair.
Richard G
Veteran
Don't be too perturbed about this. A second trip back to adjust something overlooked is unfortunately not uncommon nowadays. First of all the M4-2 is every bit as good as any other M and you should expect no less from it. My M5 had the 90 frame lines creeping into the 50 view. The lever was very loose and I suspect a pervious owner, or his friend, tried to activate the self-timer and stretched the mechanism. Anyway, the repair of that would require much more than a standard CLA, and the whole inner chassis has to be taken out of the outer shell and it is time consuming and expensive. My local official Leica repairer made a hash of what was possible and it had to go back for adjustment of the 50 frame line actuation, and when it came back the second time the lever was barely hanging on as the screw had not been tightened and the vertical RF alignment was out. I fixed both myself. For my M2 there is one person near here who I would let work on it again. For my M9 it would be back to Solms. There should be someone highly expert in the UK to get yours working as well as possible, within reason (see above.) When you pick it up insist on trying a 35, 50 and 90 on it to see that those frame lines and those alone are activated.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Which shop was this? I have a few Leica bodies in need of some TLC and I'd like to know whom to avoid (unless it's Sendean Cameras - them I avoid already due to past poor experiences).
ray*j*gun
Veteran
This forum is the right place to share experiences.....if we can help members find good service that's very valuable.
eia41
Established
Which repairer/shop was it?
Could the reference to "Aperture-priority" in the original thread be a clue??
Could the reference to "Aperture-priority" in the original thread be a clue??
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
leiya107
Newbie
It's Red Dot, ladies and gentlemen. Does what I described make Red Dot a bad shop? Oh, you guys, how can I return my camera to them knowing they are not a good shop and that their repairmen are sloppy? Maybe I should go to some place else? But that will mean even more money, which I don't have. >_<
sailor
Well-known
As I was reading this thread I thought it sounded like Red Dot. I bought an M5 from them and after no time at all the shutter jammed. I sent it back to be repaired and, after several return deadlines which were not met, it was sent back supposedly repaired. It now had a fault which it did not have to begin with. Every so often, for no apparent reason, it is very difficult to wind on. You can force it and it will continue to work fine until the next time. I've no idea what the problem is but I've decided to save up and send it off to one of the repairers recommended on here for a full CLA.
leiya107
Newbie
"Repairers recommended on here"? May I ask who they are?
V-12
Well-known
Malcolm Taylor is the repairer to go to, but the shop should sort this out for you after you have already spent the money to have problems sorted out.
I actually guessed who the retailer was before it was disclosed. I bought a fully serviced IIIf from them (mail order, in which you have to trust the description by the staff) two years ago in Exc++ condition. Not only was it tatty, but the shutter was sticking, and the diopter adjustment lever didn't work, so much for 'fully serviced'. So it went back. Edit - Went back never to darken my door again. Despite a full refund what a waste of time.
I actually guessed who the retailer was before it was disclosed. I bought a fully serviced IIIf from them (mail order, in which you have to trust the description by the staff) two years ago in Exc++ condition. Not only was it tatty, but the shutter was sticking, and the diopter adjustment lever didn't work, so much for 'fully serviced'. So it went back. Edit - Went back never to darken my door again. Despite a full refund what a waste of time.
Addy101
Well-known
No, under European law, that is also applicable in England, you have to give them the opportunity to fix it. They should fix it for free, as you paid for a good job. If they are unable to repair it, they have to pay for it repaired by someone else.
Steve_F
Well-known
I thought it was 'Classic camera'. Useless twats. Bought my M6TTL there, vertical alignment out, went to their repairer, came back no better. I waa even told the lens on the rf cam can cause it.
"My Zeiss...blah...blah causes mine to be more out than that"
I went to Leica UK in Milton Keynes (3 1/4 yrs ago now - with the intention of getting their opinion on whether it was out or just my imagination) and the gentleman there who was approaching retirement, had a look, took it away, came back 20-ish mins later, all adjusted and shutter speeds checked.
"How much?"
"Nothing"
I told him where I bought it, the story and he informed me they weren't an official Leica stockist, despite fancy signs etc. He didn't seem surprised either.
When I sent a letter to Classic Camera I had an immediate phone call offering to pay for the repair. Resisted the temptation...
Shame really as I will never spend a single penny in there again and I've bought a few Leica lenses since then.
As a footnote to this, my framelines were sticking 6 months later, so I contacted the same guy at Leica in MK, I sent it in, then later asked how much to upgrade the finder to MP as the top would be off. About £20 more I think for the parts. Superb service. Job done.
Steve.
"My Zeiss...blah...blah causes mine to be more out than that"
I went to Leica UK in Milton Keynes (3 1/4 yrs ago now - with the intention of getting their opinion on whether it was out or just my imagination) and the gentleman there who was approaching retirement, had a look, took it away, came back 20-ish mins later, all adjusted and shutter speeds checked.
"How much?"
"Nothing"
I told him where I bought it, the story and he informed me they weren't an official Leica stockist, despite fancy signs etc. He didn't seem surprised either.
When I sent a letter to Classic Camera I had an immediate phone call offering to pay for the repair. Resisted the temptation...
Shame really as I will never spend a single penny in there again and I've bought a few Leica lenses since then.
As a footnote to this, my framelines were sticking 6 months later, so I contacted the same guy at Leica in MK, I sent it in, then later asked how much to upgrade the finder to MP as the top would be off. About £20 more I think for the parts. Superb service. Job done.
Steve.