Camera: light, compact, quiet. Recommendations?

ricardovaste said:
Thanks David. I'll have a look around and investigate more.

It doesn't seem to get me into much darker situations, and seems to have reliability issues, so I'm not yet convinced it's the answer, but I have no doubt I'd enjoy shooting with a CL or CLE.
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Hi,

Every camera of that age (1972 onwards) will have reliability issues but these depend on how well it's been used and looked after. Luckily there are many who can and do repair them. But what you get is a matter of luck mainly.

I've not noticed the metering problems and have had my one for 30 or 40 years. It gets used more than any other. Mostly because it's straight forward and has centre weighted metering, which I like. It also takes all my FED, Leica and Zorki lenses. And metering problems are caused usually by poor storage. Luckily they can be repaired; I've even had a 1930's Leicameter repaired by having a new cell made and fitted.

As for problems with faster lenses, well, f/2 is fast enough for lots of people. There are faster ones but it might be an idea to look up the price of them first and then work out if they are/will be an issue. Even a basic set of 35, 50 and 90mm all at f/2 will make your eyes water when you've totted up the price with a body and lens caps and hoods.

Of course, if you are after faster Leica lenses and intend to select a few then the M series is more suitable but the ones with metering are very expensive if we are talking M6 or M7 and a set of say three lenses faster than f/2

As I see it most range-finders are available and so are the lenses. The condition of them and their price will be a major consideration. It often pays to got to a dealer with a guarantee for each lens and body but that can be more expensive. Of course, if you've paid out a lot of money for a camera you'll be disappointed if it isn't behaving like a brand new one but I feel that a lot of people are very unrealistic when this happens. I think you should expect it when second-hand and complex items are bought.

Or you could be very lucky and pick up say an Olympus XA or 35 SP etc in a charity shop for a couple of pounds and find it works perfectly. It has been known to happen several times.

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Hi,

Every camera of that age (1972 onwards) will have reliability issues but these depend on how well it's been used and looked after. Luckily there are many who can and do repair them. But what you get is a matter of luck mainly.

I've not noticed the metering problems and have had my one for 30 or 40 years. It gets used more than any other. Mostly because it's straight forward and has centre weighted metering, which I like. It also takes all my FED, Leica and Zorki lenses. And metering problems are caused usually by poor storage. Luckily they can be repaired; I've even had a 1930's Leicameter repaired by having a new cell made and fitted.

As for problems with faster lenses, well, f/2 is fast enough for lots of people. There are faster ones but it might be an idea to look up the price of them first and then work out if they are/will be an issue. Even a basic set of 35, 50 and 90mm all at f/2 will make your eyes water when you've totted up the price with a body and lens caps and hoods.

Of course, if you are after faster Leica lenses and intend to select a few then the M series is more suitable but the ones with metering are very expensive if we are talking M6 or M7 and a set of say three lenses faster than f/2

As I see it most range-finders are available and so are the lenses. The condition of them and their price will be a major consideration. It often pays to got to a dealer with a guarantee for each lens and body but that can be more expensive. Of course, if you've paid out a lot of money for a camera you'll be disappointed if it isn't behaving like a brand new one but I feel that a lot of people are very unrealistic when this happens. I think you should expect it when second-hand and complex items are bought.

Or you could be very lucky and pick up say an Olympus XA or 35 SP etc in a charity shop for a couple of pounds and find it works perfectly. It has been known to happen several times.

Regards, David
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Thanks David!

Impressive that you've used yours for 30-40 years. I think what you say about expectations is a very good point. So often I think people are 'stretching' when they buy something old, used AND expensive, so if the tiniest thing goes wrong they'll be disappointed. I think I'd be inclined to either buy from a good dealer/shop like you suggest, or if buying second hand make sure everything seems correct, and then probably send it in for a service.

One question. You say: "...metering problems are caused usually by poor storage...". Could you elaborate? I've used a few cameras with CDS meters before and I think you have to wait a while for them to 'wake up' in daylight, and then if they've seen bright light, the meter can give odd readings for a short time after. Is this what you referring to, or is there something else I should be aware of?

As for lens selection, I should be clear, this is absolutely a one lens solution. I have no interest in gathering a collection. This is for casual, personal images, day to day, travel, that sort of thing. I have a full SLR system if I need choice (and weight), but for this one lens in the 35-45 region suits me very well.

As for the exact lens, I still like the look and sound of the Voigtlander 40/1.4, even if the reviews don't seem to rave about it. I think f2 vs f1.4 can make a difference in the winter.
 
Zopkuni said:
Well why taking pictures at f 2,8 I never go under 4 or 5,6...
its razor sharp,
I would say its picture taking beauty is similar to Agfa Solinar 2,8 lens
or other Zeiss tessar type of lenses...
its very good.
A nice affordable and reliable camera and quiet in operation.
You can compare it in picture quality to a Minox 35 etc...
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Thanks for your input. But I was looking for something good in lowlight. This camera is 1-2 stops slower than what I was already using. What is it's highest ISO ? I can't find any spec sheets. As for the bokeh, I think it's a matter of taste, it looks fine to me.
 
ColSebastianMoran said:
Richard, if you put the nice little Voigtlander VC Meter II on top of a manual exposure CRF, you'll get your package with ISO to 3200. To me, this meter feels just right on top of a Cannon QL17 G-III set for manual exposure.

You could try this with the manual exposure option on your 7s-II clone.
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You know what, I actually really like this idea. Sadly, my 7s-2 clone is shutter priority only, and the electrics are not in a good way, so it's pretty much dead as there is no manual mode. However, something like the Olympus 35RD (which someone recommended) sounds nice. I could use the build in meter for ease of use, and then switch to something external for lowerlight... I do have a tiny little handheld meter somewhere. Thanks for the suggestion!
 
Frontman said:
Why not shoot a fully mechanical camera without a meter? You can shoot any speed film you like, and set the exposure in your head. My night-time camera is a Leica M3 with a Canon 50/1.2 lens, and I meter my shots with my eyes and past experience. My daytime camera is a Leica M4 with a 50/2 Summicron, and I shoot it the same way.

I bought a new-to-me Olympus OM3 today, and was out shooting it this afternoon. I shot it the same way I do a Leica rangefinder, by presetting the focus to 5 meters, as well as presetting the shutter speed and aperture for the available light. The OM3ti has a sophistcated meter built in, but I never used it once to set my exposure, I only used it to verify the settings I had picked by eye. The meter agreed to my settings, they were always corrrect.

Most people here will recommend whatever they happen to be shooting. I shoot everything. As I deal in cameras, I have a couple hundred or so of every description. Any camera I pick up is capable of taking a great photo (so long as I am capable of taking a great photo). I recommended the Hexar as it is the quietest film camera I have ever come across, has a stellar lens, and is reasonably priced compared to anything with interchangeable lenses. It can be shot manually or automatically, and is far more capable than most photgraphers who use it.

For what it's worth, I have a Konica Hexar (3 of them) but I seldom shoot with them, as I prefer mechanical cameras.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I respect you may have your own shooting styles, but I also have mine. Yours and mine are not alike. I do want to have a meter in a camera of this type.
 
thegman said:
Pretty similar, I've had an Ikon and a Bessa R4A, maybe the Ikon is ever so slightly quieter, but not much.

I'd say you can get an Ikon for quite a bit less than that, I got my body for £550, and a lens for about £300. Depending on your requirements, you can spend less on a lens too. Obviously if you want to buy new, then, yes about £1500.

Or take a real step up and get medium format... 🙂
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I didn't realise you could get an Ikon for £550 - can you at least hint at where one finds these second hand? If you type "Zeiss Ikon" into ebay you're bewildered with loads of folders and all sorts of ancient looking cameras.

I'm not sure how medium format would be a step up in this criteria? I looked at the GF670, Mamiya 6, some old restored folders. They're all around twice the weight, have lenses that are 2-3-4 stops slower. That would be huge steps backwards sadly. If Fuji/Voigtlander did a folder with a much faster lens (say f2) it would be excellent, but probably also much larger, much, much more expensive.
 
Hi Richard, welcome over here.
On our other hang-out (Dyxum) you seemed to have settled on the Minolta CLE. However, several people have mentioned the M6 here and I noticed Ffordes has a reasonably priced M6. I thought I point you into that direction.
 
ricardovaste said:
I didn't realise you could get an Ikon for £550 - can you at least hint at where one finds these second hand? If you type "Zeiss Ikon" into ebay you're bewildered with loads of folders and all sorts of ancient looking cameras.

I'm not sure how medium format would be a step up in this criteria? I looked at the GF670, Mamiya 6, some old restored folders. They're all around twice the weight, have lenses that are 2-3-4 stops slower. That would be huge steps backwards sadly. If Fuji/Voigtlander did a folder with a much faster lens (say f2) it would be excellent, but probably also much larger, much, much more expensive.
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Looks like there is not much on eBay right now, there is one available with a Summicron, but the price might be too high. As suggested, there is one in the classifieds, and you can hunt around the dealers a bit, but they do seem to be a bit thin on the ground at the moment.

I was just joking about medium format really, if you want fast lenses, it's probably not for you.
 
Hi Richard,

I recently got a Bessa R2. I've got a few Canon LTM cameras (III and IV), both wonderful manual cameras however, I thought I'd modernise and invest in a modern versatile camera.

Got my Bessa for £220 used and then attached a Zeiss Biogon 35/2.8 on to it for £600 new. I'm begining to really like this setup - fits in my coat pocket, well built (solid metal body), excellent viewfinder - I looked through my canon III finder yesterday and struggled to see anything - this illustrated to me how good the finder in the Bessa is. Good rangefinder too - bright and easy to focus. The meter is very accurate - marries up with my Sekonic and for convenience I can leave the hand-held meter at home. I can use both M and LTM mount lenses (vintage glass on a reliable accurate body is a good combination).

Basically a really good camera for a good price - simple and does what a rangefinder should do. I think Bessas are excellent value and unless you're wanting a Leica than they're pretty much a no-brainer.

Good luck,

Mark
 
I really liked the Minolta CLE 🙂
But I couldn't resist the mechanical M6...
The CLE certainly suits your needs, the viewfinder is gorgeous.
And it is A-Priority if you want, manual if you want.
It is quiet and I took some pictures one night at 1/4 second with no problem.
What i really like is how compact it is. Much smaller than the Leica M.
 
Minolta CLE fits your parameters, quiet, compact and quiet.
It not a Leica CL with a mechanical shutter & slow speed problems.
The CLE uses an electronically controlled shutter with a range of 1/2-1/1000 second, ASA to 1600.
Aperture priority auto or full manual.
It's not really set up for fast lenses because of the smallish base length of the range finder but is excellent for the 40mm lens. That's what it was designed for. The 40/1.4 Voigtlander lens is probably compact enough to not have an impact on blocking the viewfinder.
There is a thread about the CLE and Nokton that suggests it's a very workable setup.
 
Hi,

The CLE is a nice camera but is all electronic. So when it dies will any one be able to repair it?

OTOH, the CL is mechanical but with a meter in it with the meter's needle in the VF. So when the worst happens you can use it as a mechanical camera or, spend some money, and get it repaired by one of the specialists.

The advantage of both is that you won't be too tempted to start adding lenses to the outfit and spend too much on things that won't often be used. I've owned and used both but kept the CL: the CLE went back after a week and a roll of film. (I liked it but couldn't get used to having an on/off switch and worried about batteries. The CL only switches the meter on when the re-wind lever is pulled out a fraction - so more practical.)

Regards, David
 
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