mkvrnn
Established
Can anybody advise me please?
I'd like to remove the front panel of my Rolleiflex 3.5F to access and clean the lens and shutter.
I know the holding screws are underneath the leather coverings, but I think I also need to remove the retaining rings for the shutter release and flash socket lock. How do I do this?
Also the flash synchro lever? Do I need to remove this, and if so, how?
Finally, do I need to set the focus, shutter speed and aperture to any particular setting before removing the panel to aid re-assembly?
I'd like to remove the front panel of my Rolleiflex 3.5F to access and clean the lens and shutter.
I know the holding screws are underneath the leather coverings, but I think I also need to remove the retaining rings for the shutter release and flash socket lock. How do I do this?
Also the flash synchro lever? Do I need to remove this, and if so, how?
Finally, do I need to set the focus, shutter speed and aperture to any particular setting before removing the panel to aid re-assembly?
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I just went over to the Classic Camera Repair Forum and saw you'd posted this question there -- I assume you'd searched and couldn't find anything on that site? You are a brave man, is all I know!
Vickko
Veteran
There are four screws to remove and they are under the leather coverings, at each corner of the plate.
The ring around the flash socket has to come off, along with the flash lever and spring. To do this, you need to use a spanner that grips at the two notches of the lock ring. A carefully ground pair of pliers will work, but be very very very very careful.
The shutter button ring does not actually need to be removed, but seems to me that every time I take one apart, I take the shutter button off. Same thing as the flash socket, use a spanner that grips the notched lockring.
The self timer lever does not come off.
Yes, the shutter and aperture does need to be set to a specific location to reassemble, because they are both sync'ed to the sensor mechanism for the meter, via a differential gear. I think the aperture is max open and the shutter is at max speed.
I'm going from memory, but it is obvious once the cover comes off.
It doesn't matter where the focus is, but you should check that everything works at far and close focus ranges. This is important for the film wind, shutter cocking, and aperture plus shutter settings.
Once you get the front faceplate off, you can unscrew the front of the lens to get at the shutter.
Notice that you may need to take off the secondary faceplate to get at the shutter. There is a light shield at the rear of the lens which is a bear (i.e very difficult) to re-install.
Good luck, go slowly.
The ring around the flash socket has to come off, along with the flash lever and spring. To do this, you need to use a spanner that grips at the two notches of the lock ring. A carefully ground pair of pliers will work, but be very very very very careful.
The shutter button ring does not actually need to be removed, but seems to me that every time I take one apart, I take the shutter button off. Same thing as the flash socket, use a spanner that grips the notched lockring.
The self timer lever does not come off.
Yes, the shutter and aperture does need to be set to a specific location to reassemble, because they are both sync'ed to the sensor mechanism for the meter, via a differential gear. I think the aperture is max open and the shutter is at max speed.
I'm going from memory, but it is obvious once the cover comes off.
It doesn't matter where the focus is, but you should check that everything works at far and close focus ranges. This is important for the film wind, shutter cocking, and aperture plus shutter settings.
Once you get the front faceplate off, you can unscrew the front of the lens to get at the shutter.
Notice that you may need to take off the secondary faceplate to get at the shutter. There is a light shield at the rear of the lens which is a bear (i.e very difficult) to re-install.
Good luck, go slowly.
A rubber tube or even a piece of old inner tube from a bicycle is a better option than a slotted spanner unless the ring securing the flash socket lock will not give. The rubber offers a surprising amount of grip with a thumb but will leave absolutely no marks at all. A spanner normally imposes some slight marking to the slots even when it fits well and is carefully used.
Be a bit careful going inside an F model. The coupled meter makes them a bit more complex than an earlier model. I haven't done one yet myself, and would tackle one if I had to (I just perservere until I get there whatever it is) but it is perhaps not the best choice to start off with. If you do take reference images of the outside and behind the front cover and the control arms to help time the cover gears correctly for re-assembly! Take many images, generally.
The Tomosy manuals have an article about doing a later Flex and even if it is not identical it will assist. There is also a printed manual available for the 2.8F (copy of the National Camera course manual--not too bad). If you do not know how to remove the flash collar then, with respect, you have probably not done enough research yet to open one up. I am not suggesting you cannot do it--that is a very different proposition--but I do recommend looking into it more before you leap in, and this means exploiting the resources that are available to you so you are well armed to achieve a good result.
Regards,
Brett
Be a bit careful going inside an F model. The coupled meter makes them a bit more complex than an earlier model. I haven't done one yet myself, and would tackle one if I had to (I just perservere until I get there whatever it is) but it is perhaps not the best choice to start off with. If you do take reference images of the outside and behind the front cover and the control arms to help time the cover gears correctly for re-assembly! Take many images, generally.
The Tomosy manuals have an article about doing a later Flex and even if it is not identical it will assist. There is also a printed manual available for the 2.8F (copy of the National Camera course manual--not too bad). If you do not know how to remove the flash collar then, with respect, you have probably not done enough research yet to open one up. I am not suggesting you cannot do it--that is a very different proposition--but I do recommend looking into it more before you leap in, and this means exploiting the resources that are available to you so you are well armed to achieve a good result.
Regards,
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Have you cleaned a Synchro-Compur before? They are not easy shutters to work on. And the coupled meter on the F DOES make life more difficult than most Rolleiflexes.
There's a somewhat fuzzy manual for download here-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-...709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5432a75
A search will also bring up a Compur manual.
Just to give you an idea of the extra tricks on the F, here's a part I see on Ebay all the time-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-...709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5432a75
There is nothing like that in earlier models that I have seen. I think that it is actually the meter coupling, not the depth of field coupling. Anyway, that part is maybe 5mm by 12mm? in size. Until I find a cheap F, I am not going inside one since I know that the first time I do I will make a mess. Learn a lot, but make a mess.
There's a somewhat fuzzy manual for download here-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-...709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5432a75
A search will also bring up a Compur manual.
Just to give you an idea of the extra tricks on the F, here's a part I see on Ebay all the time-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolleiflex-...709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5432a75
There is nothing like that in earlier models that I have seen. I think that it is actually the meter coupling, not the depth of field coupling. Anyway, that part is maybe 5mm by 12mm? in size. Until I find a cheap F, I am not going inside one since I know that the first time I do I will make a mess. Learn a lot, but make a mess.
Vickko
Veteran
Yeah, be careful with that differential. The one for the 3.5F is different than the one for the 2.8F.
I know from experience.
The Rolleiwide also uses a differential, and I don't know if it is different than the 3.5F or 2.8F.
I know from experience.
The Rolleiwide also uses a differential, and I don't know if it is different than the 3.5F or 2.8F.
mkvrnn
Established
Many thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. That little differential does sound a bit intimidating, but do I actually need to disturb it? All I want to do is unscrew the front element of the lens to clean it and to access the shutter to very gently clean it.
Perhaps I should tackle one of the other Rolleiflexes first. I have a 2.8E with a shutter which has stuck in the not-quite-closed position.
One more thing. I've just noticed that one of my cameras is missing the retaining ring for the flash socket. Is it the same part as the retaining ring for the shutter release button, and does anybody have any idea where i might get hold of one?
Perhaps I should tackle one of the other Rolleiflexes first. I have a 2.8E with a shutter which has stuck in the not-quite-closed position.
One more thing. I've just noticed that one of my cameras is missing the retaining ring for the flash socket. Is it the same part as the retaining ring for the shutter release button, and does anybody have any idea where i might get hold of one?
OK.
Well, the front lens group can often be removed with everything else in situ. It depends on whether the camera has been tampered with and how tightly it is fastened. Often times they can be removed with nothing but gentle pressure from thumb and fingers.
Bear in mind that although evaporated lube on shutter blades can indeed make a shutter stick, problems with slower speeds for instance will likely be the result of the slow speed escapement stalling, and to reach this, there are no shortcuts, the camera front has to come off so the control rings on the front of the shutter assembly can be removed to access it.
Why do you want to clean the shutter anyway? What is it doing? Sticking open? All speeds? Just slow speeds below 1/15? One second to 1/30 or 1/60 sluggish to close as well? Helps to work out what is making it drag. If it's just the 1/8 - 1 second it's the escapement pallet/star wheel. If it's other speeds as well, it's probably dirty shutter blades.
Regards,
Brett
Well, the front lens group can often be removed with everything else in situ. It depends on whether the camera has been tampered with and how tightly it is fastened. Often times they can be removed with nothing but gentle pressure from thumb and fingers.
Bear in mind that although evaporated lube on shutter blades can indeed make a shutter stick, problems with slower speeds for instance will likely be the result of the slow speed escapement stalling, and to reach this, there are no shortcuts, the camera front has to come off so the control rings on the front of the shutter assembly can be removed to access it.
Why do you want to clean the shutter anyway? What is it doing? Sticking open? All speeds? Just slow speeds below 1/15? One second to 1/30 or 1/60 sluggish to close as well? Helps to work out what is making it drag. If it's just the 1/8 - 1 second it's the escapement pallet/star wheel. If it's other speeds as well, it's probably dirty shutter blades.
Regards,
Brett
mkvrnn
Established
The shutter release button has started to stick, although the shutter was working fine before. Also there may be a very faint trace of fungus in the lens so I would like to clean it.
rayfoxlee
Raymondo
Brave man to dig inside a 3.5f' especially when a full CLA should come in at about £100 ex parts. Is it worth the risk?
The release button sticking will not be directly related to the behaviour of the shutter at various speeds. If the shutter is operating OK at all its speeds you may not need to remove the front of the camera at all. It is OK to introduce a single drop of lighter fluid into the release button and exercise it. There isn't anything in the immediate vicinity of the release button a single drop of fluid will upset, but it may get the release working correctly again--it did for my 2.8C, which had simply not been used for some time and was otherwise working faultlessly, and continues to. Sometimes it is simply the release button itself that sticks.
As mentioned in my previous post it is generally possible to remove the front lens group with the front of the TLR in situ, giving access to the front and rear surfaces of both the front and rear lens groups (you will need to set the shutter to bulb and use a locking cable release to access the front surface of the rear lens group). If fungus is present on any of the inner surfaces of either group it begins to get a bit more involved, although not out of reach of the experienced DIYer.
If the front lens group is very tight, rubber tools or lens spanners may be needed depending on the design. If the front is coming off, anyway, access for removal of the lens group is much improved, however it should not be necessary to remove the front of the camera simply to unscrew the lens, if the correct tools are available.
Regards,
Brett
The deeper one digs, the greater the risk, it's relative to what needs to be rectified.
Regards,
Brett
mkvrnn
Established
Hi Brett
Thanks for taking the time to reply again.
I did try the lighter fluid trick but it didn't help, so the front will have to come off. I hadn't realised that the front element group will unscrew without removing the front panel, but it will certainly be easier with it out of the way. I've ordered a 35x50mm tapered rubber stopper today for lens unscrewing purposes.
It's only the coupled meter which worries me a bit, but I'll have a go anyway.
Incidentally, I have two metred 3.5Fs. One has a decoupling button on the side of the aperture wheel but the other doesn't.
Thanks for taking the time to reply again.
I did try the lighter fluid trick but it didn't help, so the front will have to come off. I hadn't realised that the front element group will unscrew without removing the front panel, but it will certainly be easier with it out of the way. I've ordered a 35x50mm tapered rubber stopper today for lens unscrewing purposes.
It's only the coupled meter which worries me a bit, but I'll have a go anyway.
Incidentally, I have two metred 3.5Fs. One has a decoupling button on the side of the aperture wheel but the other doesn't.
OK,
if you're going to have a go at it yourself you might want to acquire this manual. It's for the 2.8 model but should be quite helpful for the 3.5. No manual is perfect but it does feature a lot of actual photographs of the internals, and contains some practically worded comments about dismantling and reassembling the late Rolleiflex types including specific details about what to do and what not to do... I bought from the same seller some time back, and it is a printed copy instead of the usual CD files which makes it much more useful for reference during repairs.
One of the Thomas Tomosy manuals also covers the Rolleiflex (I think perhaps his first book) although in nowhere near as much detail. Many lending libraries list his repair manuals, or used to, and they can be found online cheaply and easily second hand as well as new.
Regards,
Brett
if you're going to have a go at it yourself you might want to acquire this manual. It's for the 2.8 model but should be quite helpful for the 3.5. No manual is perfect but it does feature a lot of actual photographs of the internals, and contains some practically worded comments about dismantling and reassembling the late Rolleiflex types including specific details about what to do and what not to do... I bought from the same seller some time back, and it is a printed copy instead of the usual CD files which makes it much more useful for reference during repairs.
One of the Thomas Tomosy manuals also covers the Rolleiflex (I think perhaps his first book) although in nowhere near as much detail. Many lending libraries list his repair manuals, or used to, and they can be found online cheaply and easily second hand as well as new.
Regards,
Brett
Vickko
Veteran
The two rings are different sizes.
Try DAG (www.dagcamera.com) for parts. He specializes in Leica, but sometimes has old Rollei parts.
I found that the Rollei techs don't like to sell parts (which I find very frustrating).
As for the differential, it comes loose when you take the front plate off. You have no choice but to re-align it to its gearing, when you put things back together. It isn't hard.
Try DAG (www.dagcamera.com) for parts. He specializes in Leica, but sometimes has old Rollei parts.
I found that the Rollei techs don't like to sell parts (which I find very frustrating).
As for the differential, it comes loose when you take the front plate off. You have no choice but to re-align it to its gearing, when you put things back together. It isn't hard.
Vickko
Veteran
Not sure that this is true, because the front panel also holds the serial number rings for both the taking lens and viewing lens. I thought it would cover the front edge of the lenses.
No, the lens serial numbers should be stamped into the front of the lens mounts into which the lens glass is fixed.
Regards,
Brett