Pixii Monochrome / Color

bob_summers said:
Thanks for the info, @Godfrey , much appreciated. I may offload my CV 15mm and replace it with the 21, as I can see it'd get more use on both film and the Pixii. I assume the 21mm needs the accessory finder? Or would using the 28mm frameline be "close enough"?
Click to expand...

You can either use the Pixii finder set to 28mm and shoot very tight (21mm focal length on APS-C is about 31.5mm FF eqFOV and the Pixii finder at that setting shows 42mm FF eqFOV). Or buy an accessory 28mm finder (for standard FF film, etc) and shoot a little loose.

Whitten said:
I had the Colar Skopar 21mm, I guess it must have been an older version because it was quite terrible. Lots of soft corners and aberrations.
To be honest it put me off Voigtlander completely. I recently bought the 40mm F2 and it's very soft in the corners, but otherwise it's a very nice lens with a character I'm enjoying.
Click to expand...

That sounds like my original CS21/4 too. It was best on APS-C format and even there not too great. I've posted three DNG files from the M10-M with CS 21/3.5 II that I shot quickly just now ... f/3.5, f/5.6, f/16:


There's plenty of detail all the way out in the corners, and low on distortions.

G
 
Whitten said:
Yeah, my point was why pay so much for a brand new rangefinder then have to pay even more for a lens with issues.
Click to expand...
I don't understand. Every lens has some kinds of issues. If you don't have any lenses, you need to buy some. If you need a lens to get a particular field of view, you buy one. Pay more and maybe you get fewer issues.

G
 
I have Leica M lenses. I thought that was the point of launching a new Rangefinder, to appeal to M users?
Trouble is the classic (and best IMO) Leica M lenses are 35 and 50, maybe 28mm, none of which get you to a 35mm aspect on Pixii.
None of my Leica M lenses have obvious issues. My older 35mm is superb. The CV 21mm 3.5 was probably the worst lens I've ever owned, with multiple and obvious issues.
 
Honestly I think the M user, having invested (considerably) in the full complement of 28, 35 and 50mm Leica lenses, is only ever going to buy the next M camera. Few will see the appeal of Pixii which is designed for the connected smartphone photographer wanting better optics. That's probably where I'm coming from, as a user of an M2 with a mish mash of lenses.

I'm looking forward to seeing photographers using classic M lenses on their Pixii as well as the cheap Aliexpress M mount glass.
 
bob_summers said:
Honestly I think the M user, having invested (considerably) in the full complement of 28, 35 and 50mm Leica lenses, is only ever going to buy the next M camera. Few will see the appeal of Pixii which is designed for the connected smartphone photographer wanting better optics.
Click to expand...
I thought the whole concept of Pixii employing the M mount was to attract M lens owners? Which I think is why you see so many people complaining about the crop sensor. I must say I'm kind of mystified myself that they've made the perfect modern digital rangefinder and handicapped it with the need to buy non Leica M mount lenses that are wide angle.
 
Not sure, @Whitten . I think that if tempting people away from Leica was the original game plan, then the investors would have pulled out the moment they discovered it was not going to be FF. David Barth obviously believes that the market is elsewhere.

I have a Pixii on order and the lack of a fast 35mm lens is something I am still not 100% convinced about, but I think it's a problem very much in my head. My most-used M lens is 35, my point-and-shoot is 35. But I'll happily shoot all day with my SLR and a 50mm.
 
I'm not sure about 'tempting people away from Leica', but it's a lot cheaper than any available digital M. If you have to replace your 35 and 50mm M lenses for wider ones, it makes the proposition much less tempting. Or I would have bought a Pixii.
We don't know how many Pixii's are being sold. Most (not all) of the online reviews are from people who borrowed one.
 
The Pixii is about the same price and has the same crop factor as the Epson R-D1.
That is the camera that Prompted Leica into bringing out a digital RF camera.
I shoot with my M8 even after having the M9 and M Monochrom. 1.33x crop compared to 1.5x crop- not much difference.
As far as "Mono Raw" and the way they are doing it, seems more like "Gain Flattening" to factor in the spectral response of the Mosaic layer. This could be done with any sensor using a Mosaic Filter that you have the spectral response curves. You are still left with sensor artifacts from the mosaic filter. A true monochrome sensor version of the Pixii would be better, and there are monochrome versions of the sensors that it uses.
 
M8 was launched 1.5 years after the first Epson (RD-1). I doubt the M8 was 'prompted' by the Epson, rather that Leica already knew digital was the future and Epson got their version out first. The crop factor was OK 18-20 years ago.
The RD-1s is now over priced (imo) due to it's rarity and the coolness and nostalgia factor. I would love to own one again, but for $500 not $2000.
 
I"m still using my R-D1 cameras -I have all three of them, and whenever I do, I'm always impressed by how well these cameras, warts, and all, process color. This said my eyesight is not getting any better and I may have to sell them. I don't think I'd go for a Pixii as a replacement. Cheers, OtL
 
Looking back at my old RD-1s files they are wonderful. I was probably using the same M lenses I use now. I would buy one again, but afraid of a fatal fault and they are very expensive for such an old camera.
 
Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Sigma, and others still make and sell crop mode sensors. It's silly to announce they were just okay for 15 years ago.

The original R-D1, announced by Epson in March 2004

The Leica M8 is the first digital camera in the rangefinder M series introduced by Leica Camera AG on 14 September 2006

2.5 years. Enough to develop a digital camera. We certainly did in the 1980s.

The only bad thing about the R-D1 and M8, they drove the prices of LTM and M-Mount lenses way up. I did sell the $70 Summicron-M at a good profit.
 
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Whitten said:
I thought the whole concept of Pixii employing the M mount was to attract M lens owners? Which I think is why you see so many people complaining about the crop sensor. I must say I'm kind of mystified myself that they've made the perfect modern digital rangefinder and handicapped it with the need to buy non Leica M mount lenses that are wide angle.
Click to expand...

I believe the concept is to design a digital camera that has a existing lens mount for which there is a widely available range of lenses, not just to appeal to those who already have an M and have a favorite range of lenses already. If the Pixii were being considered purely as an M replacement for owners with existing lenses, it would have to be an FF format sensor to preserve the characteristics of those owners' lens kits. Moving to a smaller sensor allows a degree more compatibility, theoretically, and reduces the price. No new digital Leica M body with a FF sensor is available at anything less than about double the Pixii price. Even factoring in the need to buy ONE additional lens, like the CS21 or Zeiss 25mm, only brings the price up to 4/5 the price of the least expensive new digital Leica M body. And one additional lens is all you need if you already have your favorite Leica M lenses in 35mm and 50mm focal lengths and want the same range of FoVs that you have with an M 35/50/75mm lens kit.

And, in the end, if this is not acceptable to you, why complain about it? Why not just go spend the money for a new or used digital Leica M body?

I had film and digital Ms prior to buying the Leica CL. The CL became my primary camera for a couple of years. I added a shorter focal length or two for a wider field of view as a consequence, the CS21 being one of those. I wanted a rangefinder again, and chose to try the Pixii to see if it would suit my use with the lens kit I'd put together for my digital Ms and then the CL. It didn't suit what I wanted well enough, so I returned it and bought the M10-M ... which does. I don't feel there's anything wrong with the Pixii concept, just some issues in my use of it... having to do with haptics and control characteristics... and the APS-C sensor and resulting lens kit has nothing to do with that.

I just don't understand all the aggressive insistence that "Pixii must be a flawed concept!" because an APS-C sensor doesn't suit you or your present lens kit. If it's not the right camera for you, just buy something else. If you can't afford or don't want to afford a Leica M, well, there are plenty of other camera options around too. If the Color-Skopar 21mm f/3.5 lens doesn't suit you and the Pixii does, well, buy a Leica 21 or 24 mm lens instead. No one is trying to force you to buy a Pixii, or a digital Leica M, or a Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21mm: they are all just options for you to evaluate and use if they suit you.

The goal is to find a camera that is suitable for you, obtain it, and then go make photographs. Not argue about the intentions of a camera manufacturer...

G
 
Godfrey said:
And, in the end, if this is not acceptable to you, why complain about it? Why not just go spend the money for a new or used digital Leica M body?
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Because it's a forum where people discuss and debate cameras and lenses.
Yes, I HAVEN'T bought a Pixii and I HAVE bought an M240.
My only point about the crop sensor is that the Pixii uses a Leica lens mount system, to which the most common Leica lenses end up being zoomed in (wide becoming normal, normal becoming telephoto).
Getting back to a 35mm view means adding to the cost of purchase with a 21mm or 24mm lens.
It's a simple point, no need to get upset about it.
 
Out to Lunch said:
For the die-hard Epson lovers: you can still service your Epson R-D1s outside of Japan.
Click to expand...
Where?
I owned mine in Australia. the local Voigtlander dealer agreed to fix the first issue I had, but told me they wouldn't handle the camera again. That was back in about 2007. The rangefinder adjustment is not really a user fix either.
 
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