R-D1 Realiability Discussion and Poll

[Sailor Ted]

OK here's the jist of this discussion-

The range finder on my brand new R-D1s went out after only a couple days use. It has been suggested by some that this is abnormal and that they have even dropped their R-D1 a few times with no ill effect on RF focus accuracy. My question is do most R-D1 users feel this is an accurate estimation of the RF and it's robustness or have they found it to be quite fragile? People considering this camera will be confused in light of recent comments on both sides of the fence so a discussion may be in order.

All said would I purchase mine again if I had it to do over? YES!

 

[tmessenger]

A bit arbitrary? What height, what surface, what part of the camera takes the impact, is the camera in a case and etc. If I drop my camera in the grass from 1M and it lands on the bottom plate I believe the finder would be OK. If I drop the camera on a marble floor from 1M and it lands on the top plate I believe the finder could suffer and etc.

 

[Sailor Ted]

A bit arbitrary? What height, what surface, what part of the camera takes the impact, is the camera in a case and etc. If I drop my camera in the grass from 1M and it lands on the bottom plate I believe the finder would be OK. If I drop the camera on a marble floor from 1M and it lands on the top plate I believe the finder could suffer and etc.

.

Agreed- let's say a one meter drop on a glass table landing on its bottom right hand corner. I also believe any range finder would likewise suffer however the R-D1 is in my estimation more vulnerable then most. I am just trying to uncover if most R-D1 owners believe their R-D1s to be as reliable in the RF department when compared to other non-Cosina range finder cameras.

 

[ampguy]

Hi Ted

Hi Ted

I have no idea on the rf staying in alignment in a drop, but the rd1 definitely has more plastic, and a less solid feel than a leica m camera, or my hexar rf. I'd guess it's all the cosina plastic parts giving it that feel, but then again it's digital, and I don't expect this to be some lifelong museum piece, it's a tool that I'd be pleased to have useable for the next year or so. There aren't a lot of options for digital m bodies...

.

Agreed- let's say a one meter drop on a glass table landing on its bottom right hand corner. I also believe any range finder would likewise suffer however the R-D1 is in my estimation more vulnerable then most. I am just trying to uncover if most R-D1 owners believe their R-D1s to be as reliable in the RF department when compared to other non-Cosina range finder cameras.

 

[Didier]

My question is do most R-D1 users feel this is an accurate estimation of the RF and it's robustness or have they found it to be quite fragile?

Mine was adjusted by DAG, the screws locktightened, and just by putting it on a table or carrying on the chest it got disadjusted more and more, then less again, then more again, and so on. My rangefinder lived (until I sent it for a replacement, but that's another story which had nothing to do with the rf aligning)...
Didier

 

[mwooten]

Well Ted to paraphrase an ex-president, it all depends upon your definition of "dropped." If you mean onto a carpeted floor, then I feel it might have a 50% chance of remaining accurate. I once dropped my camera bag with my D70 with zoom attached onto the concrete of my carport, and the zoom ended up broken -- but the camera survived. I reckon that the fed-3 I bought will survive falling off a dump truck.

Since this same Domke 803 now carries my RD1 it now has a very well padded "nest" of both soft and dense foam for the camera to ride in. The camera is either in the bag, or around my neck because I don't want to give it a chance to fall.

Other folks on the forum have dropped their cameras with no, or little, ill-effect. Maybe it is how the camera hits -- if it lands "butter side" down then bad things happen.

I also think that your rangefinder going out so quickly is an abnormality. However, could vibration be the cause of your camera going out? Planes, trains, and automobiles and their constant vibrations causing something inside the camera to want to unscrew itself? I don't know, but when my camera travel with me in the car it is in its padded nest, and the bag is on the car seat.

 

[tmessenger]

I have no idea on the rf staying in alignment in a drop, but the rd1 definitely has more plastic, and a less solid feel than a leica m camera, or my hexar rf. I'd guess it's all the cosina plastic parts giving it that feel, but then again it's digital, and I don't expect this to be some lifelong museum piece, it's a tool that I'd be pleased to have useable for the next year or so. There aren't a lot of options for digital m bodies...

Hmmmm. I've had my camera top plate off and the camera is metal, magnesium frame, top and bottom plate with sheet metal covers . The rangefinder is also mounted in a cast magnesium frame. Only plastic bits I have seen are some of the switch parts. This camera is not going to have the heft of a camera with a lot of brass parts but still should be durable.

Tim

 

[Sailor Ted]

Well Ted to paraphrase an ex-president, it all depends upon your definition of "dropped." If you mean onto a carpeted floor, then I feel it might have a 50% chance of remaining accurate. I once dropped my camera bag with my D70 with zoom attached onto the concrete of my carport, and the zoom ended up broken -- but the camera survived. I reckon that the fed-3 I bought will survive falling off a dump truck.

Since this same Domke 803 now carries my RD1 it now has a very well padded "nest" of both soft and dense foam for the camera to ride in. The camera is either in the bag, or around my neck because I don't want to give it a chance to fall.

Other folks on the forum have dropped their cameras with no, or little, ill-effect. Maybe it is how the camera hits -- if it lands "butter side" down then bad things happen.

I also think that your rangefinder going out so quickly is an abnormality. However, could vibration be the cause of your camera going out? Planes, trains, and automobiles and their constant vibrations causing something inside the camera to want to unscrew itself? I don't know, but when my camera travel with me in the car it is in its padded nest, and the bag is on the car seat.

Let's say a one-meter drop on a glass table landing on its bottom right hand corner.

I am also hopeful that this is an abnormality. I am sending my camera back to Robert White for replacement as it is less then one month old- let's see if the new camera is more reliable (I would guess so) as well as if this takes care of some ghosting and color fringing I see under certain circumstances (I doubt it and don't care one way or the other).

The funny thing is I likewise safeguard my cameras (my M6 is nearly ten years old and not a hitch). When the camera arrived it seemed perfect but a couple of days later the range finder went out on the vertical as well as on infinity- go figure. I purchased it from Robert White due to their excellent reputation. I figured if I got a stinker they would exchange it and so they shall. Great vendor- let's hope R-D1s number two fairs better.

I really do love this camera however it's far from perfect.

 

[mwooten]

" Let's say a one-meter drop on a glass table landing on its bottom right hand corner."

I guess it would be ok... but I don't want to test the hypothesis

" I really do love this camera however it's far from perfect."

I agree. It reminds me of a 1960's Lotus GP car -- utterly brilliant until the wheels fall off.


Take care,
Michael

 

[Terao]

Bounced mine off a carpeted floor at a wedding a couple of weeks ago - thrown with some force (I caught the strap and dragged it off a chair by accident). Standard height chair (couple of feet I guess?) on to a very thickly carpeted floor, glancing blow...

Still perfectly in line. Only damage was a glare from my Mum because I swore like a trooper when I did it

 

[Terao]

" Let's say a one-meter drop on a glass table landing on its bottom right hand corner."

I guess it would be ok... but I don't want to test the hypothesis

" I really do love this camera however it's far from perfect."

I agree. It reminds me of a 1960's Lotus GP car -- utterly brilliant until the wheels fall off

lol, well it least it won't kill you...

 

[ampguy]

the feel

the feel

Tim, I should have emphasized the "feel", could be that it is just as durable as an M body.

The feel of an M is a very solid feel. Just a small block of dense cold metal with a little vulcanite and that tad of plastic on the film advance, even the shutter is metal. I love this feel, even though I don't envision going back to regular film use anytime soon.

On the RD1, it is bigger in all dimensions than my M4P, (and hexar rf) and I feel plastic covering all over the exterior, though there are some nice touches like the left black metal review mode dial that appears like a zorki rewind dial. The chintziest parts of the RD1 to me feel like that shutter lock depression plastic switch, the faux film advance/shutter cock, and even that useful, but chintzy wb/quality plastic lever.

I've also noted that the operating temp specs are not as robust as either my pentax plasticy dslr (ist DL) or even my fuji p&s, so I don't expect that there is any weatherproofing on the rd1.

Hmmmm. I've had my camera top plate off and the camera is metal, magnesium frame, top and bottom plate with sheet metal covers . The rangefinder is also mounted in a cast magnesium frame. Only plastic bits I have seen are some of the switch parts. This camera is not going to have the heft of a camera with a lot of brass parts but still should be durable.

Tim

 

[Charles D. Orze]

Dropping complex instruments

Dropping complex instruments

Hi all,

The the US Navy used to have a spec for binoculars that they should withstand a drop of a few feet (I don't remember how many and don't have the manual here with me) on to sand without going out of collimation. At the same time, you might want to look at Harold Schere's Zeiss Ikon rangefinder site. There he points out that a light toss of your old Zeiss onto the back seat of your car subjects it to several Gs of force. It is better not to drop them.

Best,

Charlie

 

[AusDLK]

I agree with tmessenger, any discussion about the wheres and wherefores of this drop vs. that drop is way too arbitrary to have much value to prospective R-D1 owner(s). All "evidence" is anecdotal to be sure.

However, I've owned one R-D1 and one Bessa R3A (which has a similar if not identical RF mechanism to the R-D1) and both developed RF alignment problems under normal use.

But, I have purchased a second R-D1 and plan to learn how to do my own RF alignments because it is only a matter of time until it happens again.

I am a big fan of the R-D1. If only the M8 ... (blah blah blah)

 

[Ben Z]

This poll is bizarre. It's like "If you drove your car into a wall would it knock the bumper off?" as opposed to "Do the bumpers on your car fall off in normal driving?" Expecting the RD-1 to hold its rangefinder alignment after a drop is hardly the issue since it seems incapable of it just in normal use. I hope I have better luck with mine but I downloaded the how-to for DIY adjustment and I'll have my little screwdriver kit in the bag at all times.

 

[Gid]

This poll is bizarre. It's like "If you drove your car into a wall would it knock the bumper off?" as opposed to "Do the bumpers on your car fall off in normal driving?" Expecting the RD-1 to hold its rangefinder alignment after a drop is hardly the issue since it seems incapable of it just in normal use. I hope I have better luck with mine but I downloaded the how-to for DIY adjustment and I'll have my little screwdriver kit in the bag at all times.

Agreed, this is bizarre and somewhat pointless. If the (any) camera was built to withstand drops of any kind I'm sure the manufacturer would make a point of it. I don't baby my cameras, but I don't subject them to unnecessary abuse either. If I dropped any camera, I'd consider myself very lucky if it came off unscathed. As far as the R-D1 is concerned I've adjusted the RF twice in two years - most recently about a month ago - and it is an easy DIY job, thankfully. I'd rather I didn't have to do it, but it really isn't a big deal. I've had no other problems, so maybe I'm lucky. Epson don't appear to be too interested in servicing these cameras, so if you're losing sleep over its fragility, then, get rid of it and sleep easy.

 

[Sailor Ted]

I agree regarding the whole drop thing- I only asked since people were stating they have dropped their cameras with no ill effect. I am of the opinion that it is a brilliant but flawed and somewhat fragile camera. I just wanted to bring this out in the open to get response to repeated assertions that the camera, far from being fragile, could be dropped with no ill effect.

 

[Gid]

I agree regarding the whole drop thing- I only asked since people were stating they have dropped their cameras with no ill effect. I am of the opinion that it is a brilliant but flawed and somewhat fragile camera. I just wanted to bring this out in the open to get response to repeated assertions that the camera, far from being fragile, could be dropped with no ill effect.

I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig for this experiment I will happily read the results if any brave soul wants to try it.

 

[Sparrow]

The weight of the camera and the materials it was made of would dictate the result of a fall. Drop a M3 and a R2A from 2m and M3 will suffer more (K= 1/2 MV2 is it?) as it would have more energy when it hit the ground. The designer’s choice of materials would obviously also have an effect, a camera made from magnesium, the stuff they make rally car wheels from, will clearly withstand the impact better than say brass, like you would use to manufacturing a carriage clock.
As far as the RF mechanism is concerned then the mass and resilience of the individual parts are the thing, the lighter and “springier” the parts the better, plastics would seem an ideal choice where possible.
So if I had to pick one for a 2m fall my wife’s muj would be my first choice for obvious reasons

 

[JeffGreene]

Ted:

Physics is physics, and this kind of speculation is somewhat pointless. I understand your interest, but rather than worrying about whether you will experience some mishap, go out and use the camera, otherwise, if it is misaligned and currently not usable send it to DAG. And this is just the teacher in me, "reliability" is spelled without an "a"