Powder or liquid developer for newbie

blacklight

blacklight

digital renegade
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Hi,

I will develop my first film soon, so I was considering what developer to use. I'd like to know what would you suggest - liquid or powder developer? From what I've read ID-11 seems like good choice, but I'm not sure if something could not go wrong with mixing it and generally if powder developers aren't "trickier" to use than liquid ones.

Thanx
 
There is no trick to powdered developers. You usually just need to have hot water on hand at 40C/105F to make sure everything dissolves when mixing. You'll have to cool the mix before developing films.



Concetrates are nice as they are always mixed fresh. I've pretty much switched to using Kodak HC-110 as it is easy to find and works well with my favorite films.


Also note that most liquid concentrates “keep” for a very long time in their undiluted form. I’ve had good luck with HC-110, Rodinal and FG-7. Once you mix a powdered developer the manufacturers recommend that it be consumed quickly, usually 1-4 months (and sometimes sooner.) If you don’t think you can make it through 5 liters of ID-11 in 3 months, go with the one liter kit. It is a nice all-around developer.

Welcome to developing - there are a lot of options but the rewards are great!
 
Powders are no "trickier" than liquid concentrates. You just need to keep the air out as the stock solution goes down. You can reuse ID-11 stock if you add to the development as it gets older but on the whole liquid concentrates are more convenient.
 
There is no miracle with powder developer. Just dilute the two pouches (as described in the manual) in the appropriate amount of water, stir and cool down to room temp and go ahead. From my point of view, liquid concentrates might be even more trickier if you do not have the right tools (e.g. measures or syringes) to portion the developer concentrate.

ID-11 is a very good start. A easy-to-use developer with good shelf life delivering at least good (if not perfect) results. I personally used it for years in 1+1 dilution (that allows constant results at moderate costs).
 
I'd vote for a liquid one. I was mixing Xtol some time ago and didn't like that a part of the grains simply didn't want to disappear. It was almost an hour extra work. I guess it was my fault in not having the water hot enough (or to hard?) etc.. I was also afraid of mixing to wild (to not include to much air into the mix) and then again about using it all up fast enough. Going to Rodinal (fluid, keeps working 'forever') was very liberating for me. One vote for Rodinal! :)
 
thanx for all advices. one OT question, as Ilford products are largely available in my country, does Ilford have equivalent for Rodinal?
 
blacklight said:
thanx for all advices. one OT question, as Ilford products are largely available in my country, does Ilford have equivalent for Rodinal?
Click to expand...

No, but Ilfosol-S gives quite sharp results. The drawback is the shelf life of the concentrate. ID-11 1:3 is also effectively an acutance developer. a&o are producing original rodinal but you might also find Adox (Calbe) or Fomadon equivalents.
 
For a quick and dirty commentary:

a) Newbie or not newbie it has no connection whatsoever to the issue.


b) The strong point of powder is its endless freshness as they are powder, after you open the package.

c) In contrast to powder, this is not the story at all with liquid developers, even those ultra concentrated: in theory the do maintain their freshness after you have taken a minor part. But in practice the BIG problem is to find the right container to pour there the exact amount of remaining concentrate. For example if you pour 850 ml in a bottle of 1000 ml, you will be harming the concentrate. Solution: Use a shrinkable bottle of coca cola or whatsoever, but paint it black beforehand. Never buy those accordeon bottles for darkrooms sold at photo stores, they are useless.

d) The weakest point of powder is whenever you want to use less ammounts than those for which you have the written instructions. Amounts of powder are measured by weight. So you will need to buy an accurate weight for tiny ammounts. The results of your processing will depend very much on the accuracy of your weighting instrument.

SO ?
Chemicals are dirty cheap, buy liquid and don't be afraid of throwing away overdated mixtures.

PS
e) In response to a question someone asked in another thread, in my opinion, IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU DECIDE ON A SINGLE BRAND FILM AND A SINGLE DEVELOPER FOR YOUR FIRST 200 ROLLS. Once you dominate that film and that developer, using other films and other developers will be a kids play.
But if you jump from developer to developer and from film to film you will be chasing your own tail for life, or until you become fed up.

f) As a general rule Kodak company is extremely lousy in their recommended times. In contrast Ilford is very accurate. Therefore Tri-X film with Ilford chemicals is a winning combo.

Cheers,
Ruben

PS II.
Gals & Guys - processing is very much like cooking, each one with his/her modalities and experiences. So I am not going to argue with anyone.
But the only difference between cooking and processing is that you cook in a kitchen, but procces in a Darkroom, which is very often called in other countries LABORATORY.
Why "laboratory"? Because you MUST assure conditions that allow you to REPEAT exactly what you have already done, or shift away by will, in ACCURATE measures.
 
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Ilford has several liquid developers that I've used. Here they are in the order that I would use again:

Ilfotec HC is very close to Kodak HC-110. The dilutions and development times can usually be interchanged (not unlike ID-11 and Kodak D-76).

Ilfosol S was my original concentrate developer of choice. It was a very consistent developer. The only reason I switched was because I liked the higher dilutions of HC-110/Ilfotec HC and can find them easier in my area.

Ilfotec DD-X seems to be a fine developer too. It is specifically geared for the Ilford Delta Films. I developed a 50 sheet box of 4x5 Delta 100 in this developer and liked the results. Not sure it was any better than HC-110 but DD-X is convenient to mix as well.

Ilford has a few other liquid developers (LC-29, Ilfotec RT) but I haven't used them,
seen them in stores or heard much about them.
Hope this helps.
 
gregg said:
Ilford has several liquid developers that I've used. Here they are in the order that I would use again:

Ilfotec HC is very close to Kodak HC-110. The dilutions and development times can usually be interchanged (not unlike ID-11 and Kodak D-76).

Ilfosol S was my original concentrate developer of choice. It was a very consistent developer. The only reason I switched was because I liked the higher dilutions of HC-110/Ilfotec HC and can find them easier in my area.

Ilfotec DD-X seems to be a fine developer too. It is specifically geared for the Ilford Delta Films. I developed a 50 sheet box of 4x5 Delta 100 in this developer and liked the results. Not sure it was any better than HC-110 but DD-X is convenient to mix as well.

Ilford has a few other liquid developers (LC-29, Ilfotec RT) but I haven't used them,
seen them in stores or heard much about them.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Just to fill a couple of gaps here, LC29 is a more dilute version of Ilfotec HC. It's designed to be easier to mix from concentrate for occasional use. Ilfotec RT is a process developer and not designed for amateur use.

Oh, and just to second what Ruben said about consistency and sticking to one combo until you master it.
 
Used D76 first. Not impressed, but not horrified either. I got used to it. Bought Diafine. LOVED it. For fast film, especially Tri-X, I get very pleasing results. Bought Rodinal. LOVED it. For all my slow films that can't take a bath in the Diafine without messy results. I've been doing the Rodinal/Diafine thing for almost a year now and I'm ready to try something new again. I'm thinking of doing some PMK Pyro.

For someone just starting out, it's best to pick one and use it for at least six months. Instead of worrying so much about liquid or powder I'd worry more about the look of my negatives. Do you like grain? Do you want things as smooth as possible? Do you like it sharp or slightly muted? Your choice of first developer will hinge on all of this. Also, what film do you shoot the most and at what speed do you shoot it? That's the largest factor, in addition to how you like your grain, that will determine the developer you use.

As for fixer: I am now a believer in the Formulary's TF-4 formula. Smells only faintly of ammonia and doesn't knock you down when you poor it in and out of the tank like the Kodak Professional Fixer does.

Which reminds me...JandC opens back up January 15th if everything is still on schedule with the move. I highly recommend them. They carry the TF-4 fixer.
 
Rodinal lasts better then 25 years if you can remember to put the cap back.

The formula is >100 years old.

It is not good for some 400 asa film but otherwise it is excellent. Use rubber gloves the lye (KOH) is hard on skin.

Noel
 
I started last year with HC110 then tried Rodinal and most recently Ilfosil S. I would like to try Microphen and Perceptol. I have to get over the whole prep for powdered developers if I want to try them.

I found HC110 Dil B for 6.5 mins works wonders for Tri X for me.

Bill
 
Bit late in the game here... like Steph I started with D76, it was irritating to have to throw half of it away after 9 months when it oxidised. I'd go for the 1l ID11 in powders, since I don't shoot anywhere near enough to get through 5l.

Currently I'm using HC-110, which works great with my current combo (FP4 and Neopan 400), I use the smaller "european" concentrate 500ml bottle which is easier to mix since it's already more dilute than the normal syrup - dil B is 1+9.
 
Pick one film and one developer and stick with it for your first few dozen rolls at least.
I'd suggest you go for a 400asa film, they are generally the most tollerant films with respect to bad exposure, ham fisted processing. 100asa films can be fussy and hard work at times.

Go for a 'classic' combination, something that many agree gives a result.

Liquid or power. Doesn't make much difference. But a anything that reduces the pain of processing film is a bonus, so I'm a liquid man.

I use Rodinal and DD-X.

Tri-x developed in Rodinal 1+50 dillution is my favourite. If you are looking for high but controlled contrast combination, with brilliant sharpness and don't mind grain, then it's a good choice. It's got lots of character. You can pull a stop nae bother, but if you need a combination that will give you at least a clean one stop push, this is not the best. It will push to 800asa, but the contrast gets wild as does the grain.

Once opened Rodinal keeps for years. And at 1+25 or 1+50 dillution a 500ml bottle will last a long time. Use a syringe to measure it out. Silverprint in London should be able to send you some. Or you can make up your own.
 
Although there is no real challenge to making powdered developers, and ID-11 is awesome stuff, I have to echo Gregg on the point about conserving the mix.

I found that concentrates keep very well in cool conditions. I have an opened bottle of Rodinal that has been around for a year or so, and a bottle of DD-X that has been open for about the same period of time. No problems with either. I found, though, that ID-11 went bad over a couple of months.

Just something to take into consideration.

Kent
 
I have invested in liquid concentrates also due to their shelf life. The one exception is my Diafine which is a reusable product once mixed, my current batch is well over a year old now.
 
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