M8 vs R-D1 Question

[barjohn]

I have an R-D1 and have been looking at the M8. I think I understand the pros and cons of each (at least as well as one can without having both) but one thing I would like to hear a subjective response on is this:

How does the M8 compare in size (not objectively but subjectively). I understand the physical measurement differences but until you hold each you can't really envision (or I can't) the size difference. I would like a smaller lighter camera than the R-D1 but cant tell whether the M8 really seems smaller or it is so close that one wouldn't feel it went down in size to any significant degree. Opinions please.

Thanks,

John

 

[Topdog1]

I don't have an M8, but I think that it's pretty much the comparison between a Bessa R3 body and a Leica M body. Roughly about the same overall size, but different dimensions and different heft.

/Ira

 

[Imrulqays]

I second Ira's opinion.
I've used both cameras, the RD-1 since almost two years, and the M8 since one week.
Both feel similar when shooting, in size as in weight.
If you would buy an M8 in order to have a camera that feels lighter, you would be deceived.
My two cents.
Best,
Dirk

 

[Sailor Ted]

I own both- the Leica seems more "substantial." I also heartily recommend that if you go the M8 route that you opt for the grip base that replaces the standard base- it makes the camera much easier to hold so you won't miss the lack of the R-D1's shutter cocking lever.

T

 

[jaapv]

I hear you, Ted, but I don't agree on the grip. I find it rather stunted and unpractical. Tom Abrahamsson is going to make a M8 grip as well. Now that one should be a lot better.

 

[B&W Norway]

I hear you, Ted, but I don't agree on the grip. I find it rather stunted and unpractical. Tom Abrahamsson is going to make a M8 grip as well. Now that one should be a lot better.

Why is that one going to be better?

 

[AusDLK]

The R-D1 feels and handles like an M camera (with or without a grip); the M8 (because of the added depth, the slippery covering, the LCD screen and controls that get in the way of the thumb on the back of the camera unless you have a small hand) simply does not. Not to mention that you can hide the LCD on the R-D1 if you want to to enhance its traditional handling.

>Why is that one going to be better?

The Leica grip is a joke. Too small. The round shape totally non-ergonomic. Tom's grip for the film M's are a perfect mix of form and function. I think that it is safe to conclude that his M8 grip will duplicate these great features.

(Full disclosure: Tom is a friend of mine.)

 

[barjohn]

I guess I was wondering if the difference in length and height would make it seem like a smaller camera even though it is about the same thickness.

John

 

[docolmo]

I have an R-D1 and have been looking at the M8. I think I understand the pros and cons of each (at least as well as one can without having both) but one thing I would like to hear a subjective response on is this:

How does the M8 compare in size (not objectively but subjectively). I understand the physical measurement differences but until you hold each you can't really envision (or I can't) the size difference. I would like a smaller lighter camera than the R-D1 but cant tell whether the M8 really seems smaller or it is so close that one wouldn't feel it went down in size to any significant degree. Opinions please.

Thanks,

John

I had the Leica MP, and had an hour or so playing with an M8 dealer's demo. Now I have an R-D1s. The R-D1s doesn't look as elegant as the Leica M series (straight edges rather than curved body), but after a while, I quite prefer the Epson's shape and feel in your hands. The very slight contour on the back of the camera fits nicely into the bottom part of your palm (where the base of the thumb-bone is) giving a secure grip, rather than the common contour in the front of the camera body as in most DSLR.

One great thing about R-D1s compared to my Canon DSLR (5D, 20D, D30): no parts of the body "gives" under the pressure of your palm or hands. The door for flash memory slot, for example fits so well. Even the reversible LCD panel doesn't "give" under your palm. My Canon actually "creaks" under pressure!

The body is bulkier than Leica M, but looking from the top, Epson made it appear slim as the edge of the top plate is made less wider than the whole body.

Controls? Once you have set the menu up, you really don't need the LCD any more, and can fold it inside out. The dials, needle meters, etc can provide you the most frequently used photo-taking options you need. Afterall, you need the LCD only if you want to view histograms, which Epson doesn't have.

 

[Sailor Ted]

The Epson does in fact have histograms. Perhaps it has something to do with which version firmware you're using.

T

 

[POINT OF VIEW]

Grip Substitute

Grip Substitute

For myself, my M8 has the best handling and security with a beautiful Luigi / Leicatime, leather half case. I haven’t tried the grip. Luigi’s case is best accessory I’ve seen. Bill

 

[B&W Norway]

For myself, my M8 has the best handling and security with a beautiful Luigi / Leicatime, leather half case. I haven’t tried the grip. Luigi’s case is best accessory I’ve seen. Bill

Luigi makes very nice cases, but in my point of view the camera feels a bit more bulky with the case. I never use mine.

 

[B&W Norway]

I have an R-D1 and have been looking at the M8. I think I understand the pros and cons of each (at least as well as one can without having both) but one thing I would like to hear a subjective response on is this:

How does the M8 compare in size (not objectively but subjectively). I understand the physical measurement differences but until you hold each you can't really envision (or I can't) the size difference. I would like a smaller lighter camera than the R-D1 but cant tell whether the M8 really seems smaller or it is so close that one wouldn't feel it went down in size to any significant degree. Opinions please.

Thanks,

John

M8 does not feel “smaller” than R-D1.
R-D1 feels more ergonomic correct and fits your hands better
M8 looks more like a beauty and works very well with the grip.

 

[John Camp]

After I got used to the M8 grip, I could wander around holding the camera with three fingers, dangling by my side, although that might not be a good idea. I found it quite comfortable and secure to use. I also have an R-D1, and in changing back and forth, I found it didn't make too much difference, after a short period of adjustment --- but I will say that after I really started using the M8, I didn't go to the R-D1 very often. I've been using it again since I sent the M8 off to be fixed; I can't wait to get the M8 back.

JC

 

[barjohn]

So far, you all make it sound like out of the box the R-D1 wins hands down in ergonomics and feel and that to get the M8 to feel as good you must spend more money on a grip. Am I hearing you right?

 

[photogdave]

You should do your best to get both in your hands and figure it out for yourself. Maybe a member living close by has an RD-1.
Nothing sounds more ridiculous than comparing the pros and cons of something as subjective as ergonomics in the written word on the internet.
Not trying to be a jerk here, it's important to get other's opinions, just saying these discussions can only go so far!
Cheers!

 

[furcafe]

Not my opinion, as far as physical ergonomics (as opposed to the digital user interface where I do prefer the Epson) goes, but I find no need for a grip on any of my Leica M cameras (M3, M6 TTL, M7, & M8). I have also never found the M body shape or the "leatherette" or whatever it's called on the M6, M7, & M8 to be particularly slippery. However, since I need the option of having 1 or more hands free when I'm not shooting, I always carry my cameras w/a shoulder strap across the body &/or w/a bag & rarely just carry them around in my hands (the main reason why I've never really taken to wrist straps or Lutz Konerman's "Sling").

My bottom line is that the M8 is no less ergonomic than the film M cameras (I can't speak to the M5), just thicker, so if you've used 1 of them before, the transition is pretty seamless. The R-D1 is taller & thicker than the M film bodies (& still taller than the M8), but I've had no problems using it interchangeably w/my Leicas. So while the M cameras are "cleaner" & smoother in design, in practical terms, I'm w/Ira & Dirk in that I don't think there's a big difference in the field.

So far, you all make it sound like out of the box the R-D1 wins hands down in ergonomics and feel and that to get the M8 to feel as good you must spend more money on a grip. Am I hearing you right?

 

[barjohn]

I hope to get a "hands on" with an M8 to evaluate for myself when they become a little more readilly available. So far no one seems to stock it and I can't tell if Leica's production capability is really that limited or it is due to something else be it finances or technical issues. It seems hard to believe that they would be production limited given that the demand is very very small when compared to a camera like the Canon G7 and therefore production runs should not tax any modern production line.

 

[fgianni]

I hope to get a "hands on" with an M8 to evaluate for myself when they become a little more readilly available.

That is really the only way to judge it, it seems the R-D1 has a more analogue feeling in the handling, but handling the M8 you may find that having to use the LCD more often may not be too annoying to you.

 

[barjohn]

I find with the R-D1 I often have the LCD closed and only have it open when I am trying to evaluate my shots in real time. I really like the ability to close the LCD and still have all of my needed info at hand. Given the age of its technology the R-D1 is an impresive camera with very high quality images. I would like to see better low light performance but if Sean's article is correct it is comparable to the M8 or even better. This surprises me given the 5Ds low noise sensor.

John