Forced obsolescence

shutterflower said:
the real macs are dead. The new ones are just as bug-ridden as the windows OS.

I have been a windows person since 3.1, and now am running a Macbook with OS X, and I'd have to say that the OS X is even less stable than any windows system I have worked with, and the shortage of drivers, software, or various decorders has made the mac a real ball and chain.

I remember the old macs - real macs - they were much more stable.
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Well, as someone who was an OS 9x holdout for quite some time, and was a major-league OS X skeptic (at least until Panther), I have to respectfully disagree. Between a six-year-old PowerBook G3 "Pismo" and a five-year-old G4 tower, both running Panther, I've had an awfully smooth ride, and I ride both Macs pretty hard (the G4 mostly for Photoshop and related work, the Pismo for everything else). The fact that I truly can't remember the last time either of them crashed is a big deal to me. These Macs are every bit as "real" as when I ran them excusively on 9 (which I use only occasionally now).

Since I do a lot of on-site tech support now for both platforms, I have to say that while OS X ain't perfect by any means (name an "established" OS that is), XP is worse by a noticable margin...and XP was a big leap forward from Win98 from an end-user standpoint.

And it would appear that Redmond might be approaching their Waterloo with Vista:

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/

I've already advised about five clients in the last week and a half that they have to give their PCs the heave-ho if they're truly big on Vista. In at least one case–a Dell laptop that was swingin' when Win98 was new–it was about time to change it out anyway. But PC retailers are going to do boffo box-office with the Vista-hungry as many an older PC gets ashcanned for a new PC (or, in some cases, a Mac...yes, Bill, that tiny blip on your radar screen did just get a little bigger, but it wasn't my fault).

I'm hardly predicting the fall of MS. But I think their omnipotence is starting to show a bit of a slouch. With Buffalo Billions riding off into the sunset next year, the timing might be rather interesting.


- Barrett
 
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Topdog1 said:
Bring back typewriters...bring back film...bring back vinyl records...bring back boob-tube TVs...ah, the good old days!

😀😀😀/Ira
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Dear Ira,

I too do resspect the viewpoint of the younger generation. But in order to go all the way, duty re-calls for a certain and very obvious device from the truly good old days lacking in your list.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
It's only obsolete when you tell it it is. Yes, I work (my photos, internet, etc.) on a new(ish) laptop running XP. But, I still have a 3-4 year old laptop that doesn't do much but still works. Useful for IF I ever have to drag one out into the bush. I also have an even older laptop whose screen is busted (or at least the connections). Not worth having it repaired but I can still hook it up to a monitor and let it rip (slowly). Useful if I need it out in the bush hotel. 🙂 And I still have an old pc. It doesn't run XP, and can't, and it can't play all the latest software and games (which I don't care for anyways) but my little girl uses it for educational games she lends from the library.

Obsolete? Not until I say so! 😛
 
Topdog1 said:
Condoms???
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Not that I must abstain so much from small talk along the type of device you refer, but it seems to me the one not mentioned in your list is much older, and so obvious that at this stage I won't even be present at the moment you realize it.:bang:

Therefore with your permission (this is ala Barret, and on his behalf), I back off.
 
This is a strange thread. Who said anyone has to buy Vista (short of in a new computer) anyway?? So far everything mentioned is getting trashed. Why not just stick with what you have?

How many versions of Windows have there been? And let's not forget Photoshop. Or Elements, or whatever one you want to bring up. The producers are going to keep coming up with new versions every time you change your socks. Unless what you have totally gives up the ghost, stick with it. Of course it's planned obsolescence. And that's exactly the way they want it. They probably know three versions ahead what's coming up next.

BTW, I've already seen some reports of people not too impressed with Vista.
 
dll927 said:
How many versions of Windows have there been? And let's not forget Photoshop. Or Elements, or whatever one you want to bring up. The producers are going to keep coming up with new versions every time you change your socks. Unless what you have totally gives up the ghost, stick with it.
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Yup. I'm still using PaintShop Pro 7 and Thumbs Plus 4. No need to upgrade as they do whatever I want them to.
 
I was just looking at some pictures my 1st grader drew of our house for a school project. We're possibly the only family in our neighborhood without cable or satellite TV. So her picture of the family room shows a television with rabbit-ear antennae on top.
 
ruben said:
Dear Ira,

I too do resspect the viewpoint of the younger generation. But in order to go all the way, duty re-calls for a certain and very obvious device from the truly good old days lacking in your list.

Cheers,
Ruben
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Slide projector?
 
Everyone makes flippant remarks or recommends some ad hoc solution that may work for a few people. This doesn't change the underlying fact that Epson has chosen to force people to throw out functional equipment when they change their PC. Most people don't have the expertise or resources to deal with compatibility problems. Why should I have to replace my peripherals when my computer dies? This isn't a question of hardware progress, just a deliberate plan to force a new purchase because of incompatible software.

As an example that others appreciate this issue read this press release by the UK Green party:
http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2851

"There will be thousands of tonnes of dumped monitors, video cards and whole computers that are perfectly capable of running Vista - except for the fact they lack the paranoid lock down mechanisms Vista forces you to use. That's an offensive cost to the environment.

"Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade Layer' when they go through our landfill sites."
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Have consumers gotten so used to being taken advantage of that they don't even see the problem?
 
robertdfeinman said:
Everyone makes flippant remarks or recommends some ad hoc solution that may work for a few people. This doesn't change the underlying fact that Epson has chosen to force people to throw out functional equipment when they change their PC. Most people don't have the expertise or resources to deal with compatibility problems. Why should I have to replace my peripherals when my computer dies? This isn't a question of hardware progress, just a deliberate plan to force a new purchase because of incompatible software.
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Yes it is. You're so right.

That's why we all need to support Open Source. If you keep paying and playing with Microsoft, you're supporting their "forced obsolescence" model. It's your choice.
 
You want to really rack your brains??

All you folks with digital files - I hope you're just not saving them to DVD or CD - those will go the way of the do-do at some point too 😀

Dave
 
dcsang said:
You want to really rack your brains??

All you folks with digital files - I hope you're just not saving them to DVD or CD - those will go the way of the do-do at some point too 😀

Dave
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Yes, sure, no way out.

Like music cassettes, which my local supermarket still stocks, or VHS tapes, which my local supermarket still stocks, and very much unlike film, which my local supermarket doesn't stock anymore, we will be left without CD players very soon now.
 
Socke said:
Yes, sure, no way out.

Like music cassettes, which my local supermarket still stocks, or VHS tapes, which my local supermarket still stocks, and very much unlike film, which my local supermarket doesn't stock anymore, we will be left without CD players very soon now.
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I'm not talking about not being able to get stock - be they CD's or Tapes or what have you - but if you back up your data on a disk; there is potential that the disk, much like a tape, can just "not work" (for the lack of better phrasing).

Give it 5-10 years...

Edited to add:
For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

Dave
 
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dcsang said:
Give it 5-10 years...

Edited to add:
For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

Dave
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And I can show negs to you which are brittle and discolored after some 20 years, I had a hard time scanning and restoring them some 5 years ago.

Those negs have been stored in "archival" sleeves in normal room temperature and humidity but the Kodak lab may have screwed up processing Kodak film.

From digital media I can make copies which are inistiguishable from the original, I can copy to new media and I can have several copies.

And another benefit, no picture gets lost in the mail!

And a big BUT!

I earn a living with document management systems, we use digital storage since 1993. The oldest digital archive we support is the local electricity companies asset management.

So I not only know how to maintain a digital archive, I have access to the appropriate media and recorders.
 
Socke said:
And I can show negs to you which are brittle and discolored after some 20 years, I had a hard time scanning and restoring them some 5 years ago.

Those negs have been stored in "archival" sleeves in normal room temperature and humidity but the Kodak lab may have screwed up processing Kodak film.

From digital media I can make copies which are inistiguishable from the original, I can copy to new media and I can have several copies.

And another benefit, no picture gets lost in the mail!

And a big BUT!

I earn a living with document management systems, we use digital storage since 1993. The oldest digital archive we support is the local electricity companies asset management.

So I not only know how to maintain a digital archive, I have access to the appropriate media and recorders.
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Socke,

Excellent for you !!
But

Creating several copies does not guarantee longevity of the media on which you copied them.

What about everyone else who does NOT earn a living with document management systems and does NOT use old digital storage and does NOT support old archival methods..

The vast majority of people believe the following: "hey, I'll just back up to DVD and it'll be just fine 20 years down the road when I want to retrieve them."

Do you understand what I'm saying?

I'm sure your company will be making a lot of money off of people who will want to retrieve old data off of bad or rotted DVD/CD's - more power for you and your company 🙂 Maybe we should be buying stock in it 😀

Dave
 
>>Everyone makes flippant remarks or recommends some ad hoc solution that may work for a few people. This doesn't change the underlying fact ...<<

This is quite true. And annoying. One of my favorite gizmos ever is a tiny Paperport Visioneer sheet-fed scanner that sits in front of the monitor and allows me to almost instantly scan a sheet of paper, transferring the paper clutter from the actual desktop to on-screen clutter on my Windows desktop. But alas, no one updated the scanner drivers for Windows XP, so I can't use it any more (and don't feel like paying a few hundred bucks for an upgraded scanner).

You know, photographic negatives are intensely fragile things. So easily scratched or destroyed by mildew.

Longevity is relative. Leonardo's "Last Supper" is a decomposing mess. The original U.S. Declaration of Independence at the National Archives has almost completely faded.
 
VinceC said:
But alas, no one updated the scanner drivers for Windows XP, so I can't use it any more (and don't feel like paying a few hundred bucks for an upgraded scanner).
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That's why one shouldn't just throw out those old(er) but still working pc's and laptops. Hang it in your home network and you still have easy access to it and the peripherals.
 
You can have your vista and eat it too- just use the old pc as a print server, network the new vista-laden computer to the old one and send print jobs to it.
 
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