any good law enforcement stories?

sepiareverb

sepiareverb

genius and moron
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Hi- wondering how many folks get questioned by the authorities while out photographing. I was in Boston last month and while everyone else in my group was on the USS Constitution I was picked up by the NPS police and questioned by them and Navy security after I took a picture of a fence. Seems you can't take pictures of a fence at a US military installation, and especially can't take pictures of a fence after declining to have your camera bag run through the x-ray machine (yes, I know it's safe) and not going to visit the main attraction. They held me for about ten minutes, ran my id and generally were polite if annoying. So, who else??
 
Not that good. Last time I was in Manhattan I rushed to try to catch a scene. A beat up old bicycle was chained to a parking meter and an officer was ticketing a really nice Mercedes Benz. I ran up, knelt down to get the shot and the office jumped out of the way saying "let me get out of your way." I explained the photograph I wanted to take saying she was my star, but she got shy and and declined the opportunity to be photographed.

Nobody got beaten up, we exchanged smiles and wished each other a good day.
 
Yup. I was shooting at Morro Bay one evening with my wife. One of the local constables pulled up, said hello and that he was following up on some complaints of suspicious activity at one of the buildings. He asked us if we'd seen anything, and then went on his way.
 
I'm an ex intel guy and do security training and consultation, and from that perspective a person getting shots of that fence with a state of the art camera phone should have arroused more concern. Those images can be sent almost anywhere in the world instantly for analysis. The gear most of us use puts us several steps away from providing operational intelligence on a timely basis. The counterpoint, of course, is we could be gathering much more detailed shots to send to someone who is working on a non-time sensitive site analysis. So, I guess we all should be aware of the fact that if we are photographing in any location that a bad guy might want to collect data on that we'd best be prepared to be stopped and be the subject of a "field interview" in a Western country. Some other places I can think of the authorities might not be as polite.
 
Once when I've been photographing in Israel traffic trails in night from the bridge over train station, policeman had approached and questioned me. Ended up with this picture
 

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I know a women whose job it is to document and record historic structures, she was on a base here is Virginia, with permission, doing the job they paid her for. So there she is, camera in hand, taking pictures of buildings on the base (like they wanted her to) and her come the military police, guns out, tell her to put her hands up etc. She had I.D. of course, cannot get on the base without it, but they still take her in and question her for three hours. When they are finally able to reach her contact on the base the contact says, "Oh no, you don't have Carol do you?" Hows that for an exciting job!

Nancy
 
I was taking photographs at 7:00 AM (for soft light) in Clayton MO – Photo Here – using a Nikon F3/motordrive and a substantial tripod. Clayton is an urban suburb of St. Louis MO. It was a Saturday, so the place was deserted. Within 10 minutes a cop car pulls up.

The cop says "Who are you with?".

I say, "Nobody, I'm just a freelancer documenting the architecture/sculptures in Clayton. "

"Why are you doing that? Who are you with?"

"I'm not with anybody. Maybe someday I'll publish a book about publis sculpture in St. Louis."

He says, "Well I know I'm going to get a call about you because people around here are just that way, and I need to know what you're up to."

"That's my car parked over there. Would you like to see my drivers' liscense?," I offered.

"Nope, I just need to be able to say I checked you out."

And with that he left.

Another time during my lunch break I was testing a light seal repair I made on my 35 year old SLR and a recently acquired lens (Photo Here). I took several shots near Children's Hospital. It was hot and drizzling and I was carrying a bottle of water around, so I walked into the hospital lobby (which was full of people coming and going). A security guard approached me and asked what my business was with the hospital. I said I wanted to sit down and drink my water. She said I couldn't do that. I showed her my Medical School ID (the school is intermingled with several hospitals in one large campus). Then she said I could have my drink, but that I could not take a photograph inside the hospital unless I had written permission. I sat down, finished the water, and went outside and made several photographs.

Because I shoot in shopping malls, airports, and within the local public transportation system I am surprised I have not have more run ins with the authorities. I believe using a RF has a lot to do with not being noticed. I keep my camera in a "man purse" and decide exactly how I'm going to take the shot before I pull it out. Then I put it away. I don't stay in one place very long either.

When I'm inside a store/restaurant I usually ask if it's ok to photograph – but not always. There's a nearby dinner with walls full of photos taken by customers. Whenever I feel like I need to photograph some people, I visit. No one there could care less if I have my RF out and take photos.

I'm almost done a major overhaul to my web site. When it's finished I'm going to write the PR department of local public transportation system for formal permission to photograph on their property. If I receive permission, that's when I'll probably get stopped by security all the time
 
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Gray Fox said:
I'm an ex intel guy and do security training and consultation, and from that perspective a person getting shots of that fence with a state of the art camera phone should have arroused more concern. Those images can be sent almost anywhere in the world instantly for analysis. The gear most of us use puts us several steps away from providing operational intelligence on a timely basis. The counterpoint, of course, is we could be gathering much more detailed shots to send to someone who is working on a non-time sensitive site analysis. So, I guess we all should be aware of the fact that if we are photographing in any location that a bad guy might want to collect data on that we'd best be prepared to be stopped and be the subject of a "field interview" in a Western country. Some other places I can think of the authorities might not be as polite.
Click to expand...

I have had repeated "encounters" with various police agencies and I am struck with their unilateral resistence to applying common sense in any given situation. One of my favorite examples concerns the Coast Gaurd. There is a very small waterfront park bodering a CG station and I use it to test equipment, new film, etc. That, and it has some lovely old piers that are some of the very last remnants of the old waterfront. I was accosted, in the public park, by a security guard and two armed Coasties. They demanded I turn over my equipment as it appeared to them that I might have taken some pictures of the CG station. Let's just say that I did not comply and that I was able to make my case that I did not take any pictures of their station, I have not taken any pictures over the course of ~3 years that I have almost weekly visted the park and that I understood and respected the sensitive nature of a military facility.

Now, these guys were ready to seize my equipment and most likely detain me for questioning because "they thought I may have done something". At the same time there are harbor tours that pass in front of the CG station packed with tourists snapping away with no...zero...restraints. I also pulled up the station in full detail, far better than any vantage from the park, on Google Earth. Does anybody think for a minute that armed Coasties have contacted the Harbor Tour company or stormed Google and attempted to seize any equipment?

I think that we are wasting alot of time, money and resources because no one is allowed to use common sense.

Bob
 
I can't ever remember being stopped by a sworn LEO for taking pictures, but I have had a few encounters with private security people and those who thought it was their job to see what evil I was up to.

I was once asked, asked, not told, not to shoot by a casino security guard. This was at the Westward Ho casino just before it closed. I was shooting some of the outside, stepped inside, raised the camera, and he stopped me. He was very courteous and apologetic and asked me very nicely to not shoot inside the casino.

Then there's The Bean. Rather than repeat it here again, here's the link to my blog entry which tells the story and shows photos of the guard doing his job and checking out that mean evil chick with the camera. 🙂

http://omababe.blogspot.com/2007/01/forbidden-images-polishing-bean.html

Then the CTA. I was casually taking some shots in some subway stations, NBD, stuff like this:

http://www.letis.com/dmr/pics/chi/chi1/dmrlasalle4.jpg

This guy in an orange vest approached me. He was a maintenance type, definitely not police or security and not a station agent. He first asked "Are you the CTA photographer?" He then told me that photography in the subway was not allowed. I knew it was allowed, since I checked this before and even had the number of the service bulletin which permitted it, but I did not want a confrontation, so I apologized, capped the lens in front of him and moved on (to another station and kept on shooting). 🙂

Speaking of the CTA, as an aside, last fall I missed getting the CTA story first hand by this {holding thumb and forefinger about an inch apart} much! I was having dinner with some local friends and one of the guys there, he was with a friend of a friend of mine (BFOAFOAF?), and I don't even know if he was her steady BF or just a date for the evening, we were making small talk and he asked me about the t-shirt I was wearing, which was a "CTA Red Line" shirt. I said I just got it at the Chicago store that morning. He asked me if I was a railfan and I said "sortakinda" and the conversation then drifted off to other things.

Later that evening, after they had left -- they were going to a play or something and didn't stay out with us after dinner -- I was told that HE WORKED FOR THE CTA!!!!! Holy {asterisks}!!! I am kicking myself for not continuing that subject. I'm sure he could have told me lots about what the real story is! Maybe I'll run into him again next time!
 
now we get it going!

now we get it going!

I've been stopped from shooting by security guards a few times, they don't really bother me- as I figure they're not going to detain me for hours. I was at a CT mall about a year ago, shooting some stuff early in the day, had stopped there while on the road hoping (and succeding) in getting some strong coffee. I don't shoot people- shadows, sunlight on the floor, awinings- abstract stuff, but there suddenly were two security guards converging on me right as I was seeing the best shot in the place. Didn't get the shot, "the owner doesn't like people taking pictures". Oh well. Usually it goes well.

I met the owner of an abandonded grain elevator near my house- big old 7 story timberframe building built in 1900 or so and said half joking that I could shoot in there for a year, and that I'd love to rent it. When he asked how much I pulled out the $50 I had in my pocket and made an offer- he countered with $100 and I accepted. Shot there for the month of January last year with the fuji645, 810 and had one last big project with my Nikon F4's before trading most of the 35mm for my Leica. Just starting to print it up for real. And he was thrilled that somebody had an interest in his old building.

Great stuff! Keep it coming!
 
Any good law enforcement stories?

Any good law enforcement stories?

For good reason, whether we like it or not, law enforcement has become very cautious of every one today and, if I were a cop, the fact that you carry a camera doesn't mean you couldn't be some kind of problem.

Remember the cliché of the camera-carrying Japanese tourists before World War II... We never paid any attention to them supposely taking snapshots of their family along the waterfront with a battleship in the background... Once the war broke out, people remembered all the Japanese "tourists." The C.I.A. had to be satifisfied with asking the public for picture postcards of some of those far-off places to fill in blank spaces in some of our intelligence.


In Argentina, after Perón was overthrown, I remember visiting a beautiful showplace children's playground in Buenos Aires built by Eva Perón...It was being guarded by three soldiers holding machine guns....I focused my Leica on them, with the playground behind them, and shot off a few pictures as they stared at me. In those days photographers were just doing their job...and subjects generally let them do it...

I don't believe I would do it today...I don't believe I would get shot -- although you never know -- but the chances of someone grabbing your camera and smashing it to the ground is a real possibility...

Solution: ask first if there is the slightest doubt...
 
bob cole said:
For good reason, whether we like it or not, law enforcement has become very cautious of every one today and, if I were a cop, the fact that you carry a camera doesn't mean you couldn't be some kind of problem.

Solution: ask first if there is the slightest doubt...
Click to expand...

Sure and maybe you should ask which, if any, of your constitutional rights you are allowed to enjoy today....you know, if it's ok with them.....otherwise offer to check back if that would be ok.

By the way just because I carry and use a camera does not mean I am some kind of problem. I'll stop yapping about this when I see these law enforcement types stop someone from snapping pictures with a cell phone camera or the typical p&s digi-cam. I've yet to see that....not once. Their suspicion seems to stem from something other than a real threat. The title of "some kind of problem" seems reserved for those of us who dare to go about our legal, peaceful pursuits in spite of the climate of suspicion and distrust.

If you want to stop and ask the authorites if it's ok to be an American go ahead. I intend to be an American, conduct myself in a lawful and peaceful manner with out their permission and they will have to stop me if I am some kind of problem!

Bob
 
rpsawin said:
If you want to stop and ask the authorites if it's ok to be an American go ahead. I intend to be an American, conduct myself in a lawful and peaceful manner with out their permission and they will have to stop me if I am some kind of problem!

Bob
Click to expand...



I didn't say to always ask [if it's ok to take pictures], but to ask if there's the slightest doubt...

Authorities with guns tend to act a little different from the rest of us and I, for one, never argue with anyone carrying a gun...
 
bob cole said:
I didn't say to always ask [if it's ok to take pictures], but to ask if there's the slightest doubt...

Authorities with guns tend to act a little different from the rest of us and I, for one, never argue with anyone carrying a gun...
Click to expand...

Bob,

I have been chased by police, tear gassed and shot at as a young man in the late 60's. I was one of many throughtout this country and around the world. In fact innocent students were gunned down by armed troops on a college campus. While I was not at Kent State I understood what happened. If everyone in the 60's backed down and was intimidated by a goon with a badge and a gun blacks would still have seperate water fountains and we would still be in Veit Nam. This may sound dramatic but it is not.

Last year I was confronted by a security guard and two armed Coast Guardsmen who demanded I turn over my camera as it appeared to them I may have taken a picture of their facility. The two armed Coasties had their hands on their guns and they were ready to fire. No one asked any questions. They immediately demanded I turn over my equipment based on an action they thought I might have done. Well, I did not turn it over and I repeatedly told them I was an American citizen on public property acting in a lawful and peaceful manner. If they could not tell me what I did and how it violated any law(s) that the could f**k themselves.

I agree with you that we need to be cautious and if there is a gray area make sure you are within the law and not causing a problem. That is common sense and unfortunately common sense is what is sadly lacking in far too many of these encounters.

Bob
 
It is my understanding thhat we are allowed to photograph anything from a public sidewalk/road/property. This includes someones front porch, or someone on their front porch, as due to the open nature of that space it is considered a less than private space. Not for tresspass obviously, but if one can see it from a public space that it is fair game. Heard this recently on NPR I believe, but can't remember the context/story to look it up. Anyone know the true legality of what we do??
 
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