ImpMan71
Established
Hi,
I have recently got an L61 & when I put it on my fed1 the focus & aperture stops are on the under side of the lens.
It's in the right place on the Zorki so it has to be the lens mount on the Fed.
I thought about unscrewing the lens mount & turning it through 180 degrees but there is a recess where the top plate goes, unlike the Zorki which is flat, so thats not possible!
Any ideas on this greatly appreciated
I have recently got an L61 & when I put it on my fed1 the focus & aperture stops are on the under side of the lens.
It's in the right place on the Zorki so it has to be the lens mount on the Fed.
I thought about unscrewing the lens mount & turning it through 180 degrees but there is a recess where the top plate goes, unlike the Zorki which is flat, so thats not possible!
Any ideas on this greatly appreciated
Xmas
Veteran
Imp
What serial number is your fed 1?
Noel
What serial number is your fed 1?
Noel
ImpMan71
Established
Hi Noel,
serial no. on my fed is:
131352
serial no. on my fed is:
131352
Spyderman
Well-known
My advice: turn the camera upside down, advance and release with left hand - and the scale is on top again 
or you could learn to walk on hands...
(just kidding )
or you could learn to walk on hands... (just kidding
)Xmas
Veteran
Imp
Ok I'll try my 2x I61 on a 84xxx and a 174xxx and report. Never tried as the Fed 1 were designed for their own collapsibles, although I think a 131xxx should be a standard mount.
Jay the Zorki/Fed afisando will probably tell you what is wrong before i get back.
Noel
Ok I'll try my 2x I61 on a 84xxx and a 174xxx and report. Never tried as the Fed 1 were designed for their own collapsibles, although I think a 131xxx should be a standard mount.
Jay the Zorki/Fed afisando will probably tell you what is wrong before i get back.
Noel
Nickfed
Well-known
I think your FED is quite old and the thread start is (Ahem) not quite to standard, but they were fixed later - more or less. I believe there is nothing you can do about it, except take Spyderman's sage advice. My later FED1 525xxx takes later Industars OK.
Xmas
Veteran
Imp
Tried my I61 year '60 serial nmber on my two Feds bracketing yours. The I61 would not thread on either of the Feds, so your mount may be a later adoption e.g. from another camera. The I61 would only do 3/4 of a turn before it stopped.
Noel
Tried my I61 year '60 serial nmber on my two Feds bracketing yours. The I61 would not thread on either of the Feds, so your mount may be a later adoption e.g. from another camera. The I61 would only do 3/4 of a turn before it stopped.
Noel
Glauke
Member
Maybe the best thing is to find a broken Zorki and try to use its mount ring as replacement. But I don't know if FED 1 and Zorki 1 rings share the same measures for the four screws.
Nickfed
Well-known
I think there are other problems here. I believe there are differences in the body thickness and thus the mount rings are different too. This is reflected in problems with the collapsible lens's focussing lever of one fouling the body of the other. Tread carefully, trawl the forum back a few months, and generally keep FED with FED and Zork with Zork......
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
Nickfed is correct- Zorki and FED had lens mounts whose start threads were not always in the same place. Some of them had it so bad that the lens markings would be found at the bottom or at either side of the barrel when when the lens is fully mounted. This issue even affected other collapsible 50 lenses. It isn't at all strange that a similar collapsible 50 from another camera would mount with its tab right over one of the RF or even the VF window.
The older FED are more afflicted with this. The FED from the middle range (I found those with SN above 400XXX) to be more consistent. However the thread starts were still not in the same place, unlike the case of Leica or Canon. Many lenses still would mount with their index marks slightly to the left or right, instead of the centre. And this was never really resolved- even FED or Zorki from the 60s or 70s can have mounts which did this.
I would also venture to say that this is the reason why Soviet LTM 39 lenses always came with full barrel RF cams. With such cams, the lens can stop anywhere as it's mounted and still be able to couple correctly with the camera. Having the markings at the bottom is indeed an inconvenience, but if the camera's RF and lens flange register/working distance is correct, the lens can work well with the camera.
A FED in the 131xxx range may not work correctly with the later I-61. They are often found with non-standard (ie 28,8mm) flange to focal distances. Their RF camming is also different. The odd way the I-61 fits on it can be taken as an indicator of this. So unless a FED from this range had previously been adjusted
for a more recent lens, expect to have more problems than just having to read the scales from the bottom of the camera.
The good news is that you can always adjust the camera to suit your I-61, if this and later Soviet LTM are what you'll be using with it.
Jay
The older FED are more afflicted with this. The FED from the middle range (I found those with SN above 400XXX) to be more consistent. However the thread starts were still not in the same place, unlike the case of Leica or Canon. Many lenses still would mount with their index marks slightly to the left or right, instead of the centre. And this was never really resolved- even FED or Zorki from the 60s or 70s can have mounts which did this.
I would also venture to say that this is the reason why Soviet LTM 39 lenses always came with full barrel RF cams. With such cams, the lens can stop anywhere as it's mounted and still be able to couple correctly with the camera. Having the markings at the bottom is indeed an inconvenience, but if the camera's RF and lens flange register/working distance is correct, the lens can work well with the camera.
A FED in the 131xxx range may not work correctly with the later I-61. They are often found with non-standard (ie 28,8mm) flange to focal distances. Their RF camming is also different. The odd way the I-61 fits on it can be taken as an indicator of this. So unless a FED from this range had previously been adjusted
for a more recent lens, expect to have more problems than just having to read the scales from the bottom of the camera.
The good news is that you can always adjust the camera to suit your I-61, if this and later Soviet LTM are what you'll be using with it.
Jay
ImpMan71
Established
Thank you for your long response Zorkicat, there's some really interesting info there & to everyone else for your response!
I feel a bit loathed to "alter" the body, as by my reckoning it's done quite well to be in the good condition it is after 67 years!
I bought the lens of Ebay the other week for the princely sum of £6.50 (postage was more at£7!).
I'm looking at dismantling it & regreasing as per Matt Denton's website:
http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/industar_relubing/index.html
I'm wondering if it will be possible to turn the mount through a third of a turn on the lens. There looks like there is a keyway that it lines up with & I wonder if I can replicate this a third of the way round - wont know till I strip it to grease it.
I know the index marks wont be at 12 o clock, probably about 10-11, but at least they will be visible from above. I really don't fancy Spyderman's alternative
I feel a bit loathed to "alter" the body, as by my reckoning it's done quite well to be in the good condition it is after 67 years!
I bought the lens of Ebay the other week for the princely sum of £6.50 (postage was more at£7!).
I'm looking at dismantling it & regreasing as per Matt Denton's website:
http://mattdentonphoto.com/cameras/industar_relubing/index.html
I'm wondering if it will be possible to turn the mount through a third of a turn on the lens. There looks like there is a keyway that it lines up with & I wonder if I can replicate this a third of the way round - wont know till I strip it to grease it.
I know the index marks wont be at 12 o clock, probably about 10-11, but at least they will be visible from above. I really don't fancy Spyderman's alternative
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ImpMan71
Established
I have just re greased the lens as per the instructions on the web site previously mentioned - wow, what a difference.
I'd definately recomend it if your focusing ring is a bit loose/tight.
Anyway, back to the chase! Having had it all apart, I am quite confident that I will be able to get the index marks in the right place at 12 o'clock.
The hardest bit is going to be accurately marking up the ring that comes off the lens, where I need to file it, in order to rotate it around.
I will just have to apply some logic to this - not a strong point for me!
I will attach some pics (of my modification) when I have done it & let you know how it goes, may not be for a few days.
I'd definately recomend it if your focusing ring is a bit loose/tight.
Anyway, back to the chase! Having had it all apart, I am quite confident that I will be able to get the index marks in the right place at 12 o'clock.
The hardest bit is going to be accurately marking up the ring that comes off the lens, where I need to file it, in order to rotate it around.
I will just have to apply some logic to this - not a strong point for me!
I will attach some pics (of my modification) when I have done it & let you know how it goes, may not be for a few days.
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
And by the way, I actually have one FED "Kombinat" (early post war) whose lens mount was inverted so that 'other' lenses can mount on it. It's not a simple matter of removing the lens mount and turning it 360 deg- the lens mount has a milled out portion behind the top part of the flange. This is to give clearance to the front part of the top plate where part of the flange lies on. The inverted mount I found had been filed at the opposite side to allow it to be installed correctly.
If you do this route, make sure that you measure the flange to focal distance- and it should be exactly 28.8 (+/-0.02mm). The rangefinder would then have to be calibrated for focus synchronisation with the lens. It should be calibrated for infinity using the adjusting screw in the RF, and for minimum distance by altering the slope of the RF sensor/coupler tip.
Jay
If you do this route, make sure that you measure the flange to focal distance- and it should be exactly 28.8 (+/-0.02mm). The rangefinder would then have to be calibrated for focus synchronisation with the lens. It should be calibrated for infinity using the adjusting screw in the RF, and for minimum distance by altering the slope of the RF sensor/coupler tip.
Jay
ImpMan71
Established
I have filed the new slot in the threaded mounting piece - & the index marks are now in the right place
The range finder is slightly "off" so I will need to recalibrate it tomorrow.
I need to order some Dev & fixer so I can develop my roll of XP4, which I need to finish in the Fed, to see if the I61 works with it - fingers crossed
Your Fed sounds like a good rare find Zorkicat!
There's a couple of pics attached of what I did.
It was very straight forward in the end.
The range finder is slightly "off" so I will need to recalibrate it tomorrow.
I need to order some Dev & fixer so I can develop my roll of XP4, which I need to finish in the Fed, to see if the I61 works with it - fingers crossed
Your Fed sounds like a good rare find Zorkicat!
There's a couple of pics attached of what I did.
It was very straight forward in the end.
Attachments
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
ImpMan71 said:The range finder is slightly "off" so I will need to recalibrate it tomorrow.
I need to order some Dev & fixer so I can develop my roll of XP4, which I need to finish in the Fed, to see if the I61 works with it - fingers crossed
Your Fed sounds like a good rare find Zorkicat!
There's a couple of pics attached of what I did.
It was very straight forward in the end.
Re filed lens mount flange- make sure that the filed area clears the top plate.
Before you adjust the RF, make sure that you are able to set the lens mount at the right distance from the film plane. That should be exactly 28.8mm - a variation of as little as 0.02mm is enough to make the focus bad. You can fairly assume that 28.8mm is the 'working distance' you'd need for your I-61. I see that you have an I-61 L\D- this lens is supposed to have the standard 28,8mm 'working distance'- assuming its properly made.
Then you'd have to adjust the rangefinder for both infinity and minimum focus adjustments. It's not enough to adjust the rangefinder image alignment for infinity alone. Focus at shorter distances will likely be off when infinity alignment is the only calibration done.
Instructions for doing this can be found here:
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page422.htm
I do think that the "Kombinat" FED isn't very common.
Jay.
PS- is XP4 Ilford chromogenic film? If it's so, you'd need colour C-41 processing for that.
edit-OOOOps! I thought you filed the lens mount. Since it was the lens which was modified, you would have to check that the lens retains the 28.8mm register after modification.
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