X-post: M8 vs. R-D1 Sensor IQ

JohnnyRangefinder

JohnnyRangefinder

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Hello all --

Not to start a war -- though this could be considered an incendiary device -- I wanted to get some opinions on the subject of R-D1 vs M8 image quality.

I really have been enjoying my Epson and CV lenses. A good friend recently purchased an M8 and a matching 24/2.8.

It got me thinking about lenses and bodies -- base lengths and sensor sizes -- optics and manufacturing...

So the question is; What would regularly give better IQ -- quality Leica glass on an Epson, or CV glass on an M8?

Put a different way, would I be better served getting some Leica glass for my R-D1 or getting an M8 for my CV glass?

Thanks for the input,

Sasha
 
Your bringing up some good issues. For me, the M8 didn't cut it. I had 2 for a few weeks and returned them. As a photographer that used Leica's for over 45 years, developing my own film/prints etc...I found a certain peace of mind in viewing my images. Digital has always, to me, seemed to plastic. I sold the Canon 5D's too due to this reason. The RD-1s for some reason makes images that equate to my silver prints from the darkroom. What I mean in no uncertain terms is that the Eppi is very photographic....the prints are very photographic and don't read plastic/digital to me.

So to answer your question I would ask you one first. What do you want from your camera/lens...and more importantly images?

Photographically the Epson is a better choice than the M8....for me...
Image quality, well, that's a no brainer...nothing ever beats Leica glass. As good as CV/ZM lenses are...Leica has the biggest advantage over them and that advantage is in the contrast.....so the choice is yours of course but that choice should be made within the right guidlines for what you want....

image quality is a subjective loaded discussion that I wouldn't even attempt to debate here. The real question is....

what is your defination of image quality....is it the sharpness/contrast...or is it the image itself.....

for me Kertesz has the best image quality of any photographer ever.....
anyway....

I know I'm rambling but the answer to your question is in there...you just have to find it brother...later don
 
The Espon is a great camera, and for some people, they don't need anything more. But the M8's 4 extra megapixels, and better dymanic range, beats the Epson, especially when using good glass such as Leitz or Zeiss. I make large prints from my files, 13" x 19" minimum, and I can easily see the difference.
 
Rover --

Thanks for cleaning up 🙂 A little user error...

I am indeed interested in a film camera as well, but it is for a somewhat specific project. I have a good-sized old Nikon F3 kit, but the rangefinder form fits the bill and I have a couple of great M lenses that I look forward to adding some nice glass to.

Cheers,

Sasha
 
M4 --

I think I did find an answer in there 🙂

I feel I am of the mind to 'experiment' with a nice lens or two before entertaining a full heart transplant. As noted elsewhere, I may be in the market for a film body as well and that would compliment a new lens or two nicely.

Cheers,

Sasha
 
Which on can you afford, and do you want to afford? 🙂

The best thing about the M8 is IMO is the fact that you can return it easily if it doesn't meet your standards. With the R-D1 that might be a little more difficult (unless, of course, you pay the retail price in a proper shop).
 
J. Borger said:
CV lenses on the M8 without a doubt!
Click to expand...

I'll second this. The IQ from the M8 is really, really good - level of detail is a step up from the R-D1. CV lenses are less expensive than Leica lenses, not necessarily less good - read Sean Reid's reviews of lenses for the R-D1 on luminous-landscape. However, the IQ from the R-D1 is also very, very good - I have A3+ prints that are great. Its all relative.
 
Just as a matter of highly opinionated observation, the 35 Ultron performs really well on film. It performs rather well on the R-D1. I don't think it should be used on the M8 like you would on a film body. The Ultron is a very good B&W film lens.

I've seen CV lenses such as the 21 and the 35 Color-Skopar perform pretty well on the M8.

However, if you have the money, but not that much for the Leica versions, get the new ZM lenses.
 
The RD1 has a 6MP Sony chip, same one I'm told as the Nikon D100 and Pentax *istD. I've seen a lot of great photography done with those too. Sure for big prints you're talking uprezzing a little. Fred Miranda's plug-ins (sharpening and interpolation) for the Nikon D100 work very well at least for me.

Here's my situation: I'd love to have an M8 and maybe someday I will. But for now there seems to be a better chance than with other brands that if I buy one it'll need to go back to Germany for service. And Leica's service is S-L-O-W. I would be splitting a gusset if I paid $5K for a camera with the digital's ticking depreciation meter and had it sitting overseas for months. The RD1 cost me $1400 as a refurb, so far it's 100% no defects. Worst-case I might need to adjust the rangefinder myself someday. The kind of total crapouts afflicting the M8 are extremely rare with the RD1. But like I said, someday when the M8 is more reliable...just not yet.

Meantime, since I'm not a pro with editors, customers, competition or deadlines dictating to me, I have no problem shooting film in my M Leicas. So far I can still buy any of the film types I like, and get decent-quality processing. It's a hobby and I like developing b&w film myself...enjoy the doing as much as the results...that's what "a hobby" is.
 
You have two contrasting things to consider:
1) Image quality, most likely CV glass on M8 is the best choice
2) Future value, Leica Glass does hold its value very well, while I'm sure the M8 value will plummet as soon as an M9 will be released in a few years time, it's the digital game, good glass is good glass, even if 20 years old, good digital is good digital only until something better comes around.
If you buy a good Leica lens you will still be using it in 20 years time, I am not sure if the M8 will still be widely used in 5 years time.

You already own an R-D1 so it is not a matter of which is the best buy, but rather than if the camera performs well enough for your needs, if yes, then I'd go for Leica Glass, and that can only improve the overall quality of your system; if however you find the IQ of the epson unacceptable, then no Leica glass is going to improve it enough, and an M8 becomes your only choice.
 
Well as much as I like the M8, after using it for a week I find myself wishing that the Leica designers had taken the approach that the Epson designers did in terms of making things accessible via dials and knobs rather than menus (ISO and EV in particular, plus I really love the analog gauge -- see my avatar).

Also the Epson just *feels* more like a traditional camera to me somehow. Not knocking the M8 as it takes quite wonderful pictures, and if it cost half of what it does I'd be more likely to keep it. But then again, I also think I got a poor example.

But my CV lenses on the M8 really shine -- but then again my one Leica lens (which won't mount on the M8) is spectacular on the RD-1.

But THIS M8 (at least) is headed back to Amazon.
 
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Joe Mondello said:
Well as much as I like the M8, after using it for a week I find myself wishing that the Leica designers had taken the approach that the Epson designers did in terms of making things accessible via dials and knobs rather than menus (ISO and EV in particular, plus I really love the analog gauge -- see my avatar).

Also the Epson just *feels* more like a traditional camera to me somehow. Not knocking the M8 as it takes quite wonderful pictures, and if it cost half of what it does I'd be more likely to keep it. But then again, I also think I got a poor example.

But my CV lenses on the M8 really shine -- but then again my one Leica lens (which won't mount on the M8) is spectacular on the RD-1.

But THIS M8 (at least) is headed back to Amazon.
Click to expand...


Extremely Heart Wrenching to me too...

I had and returned 2 M8's...I m a true diehard Leica user and have been for well over 40+ years...to have them and then be let down...was heart breaking but be that as it may...for me....the Eppi really satisfies all the right places that the Leica was lacking....

maybe when the upgrade (M9) comes out I'll try again....of course I will....hopefully they will get it right by then....don
 
fgianni said:
You have two contrasting things to consider:
1) Image quality, most likely CV glass on M8 is the best choice
2) Future value, Leica Glass does hold its value very well, while I'm sure the M8 value will plummet as soon as an M9 will be released in a few years time, it's the digital game, good glass is good glass, even if 20 years old, good digital is good digital only until something better comes around.
If you buy a good Leica lens you will still be using it in 20 years time, I am not sure if the M8 will still be widely used in 5 years time.

You already own an R-D1 so it is not a matter of which is the best buy, but rather than if the camera performs well enough for your needs, if yes, then I'd go for Leica Glass, and that can only improve the overall quality of your system; if however you find the IQ of the epson unacceptable, then no Leica glass is going to improve it enough, and an M8 becomes your only choice.
Click to expand...
Bravo - an excellent clear argument! I feel I'll be exploring the potential of the R-D1 until it or I pop this mortal coil (hopefully, it, first!)

Meanwhile I'd rather buy Leica lenses (just got my first late-model Summicron 😀 ) and use this body - then if it does kark it, I'll have the pleasure of putting those lovely lenses on my new (successor to the?) M8.

ps you can have a lot of fun with other, older lenses too...
 
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