Tom A
RFF Sponsor
shadowfox said:
I do make my own developers ( only time a degree in clinical chemistry has paid off). The basic source book for this is Steve Anchells " Dark Room Cookbook" and once you get into it, you can start modifying processes and chemistry to suit your shooting style. Only part that I still buy as "store" product is
the fix as I hate making it from powder.
If you buy in bulk ( Sodium sulphite, carbonate in 10 lbs bags, metol or Phenidone in 1 lb cans as well as Hydroquinone in 1lb cans) you cut your film developing cost to pennies. Calculating with the fix it costs me about $ 0,80 to do 5 rolls. I go through 450-550 rolls a year so the developing cost is minimal compared to the cost of film.
I you restrain yourself from getting fancy and stock up on the basics you can also make vastly improved paper developers from much the same chemistry. Mass produced developers have to be manufactured for packaging and storage while if you make them from scratch you dont have to worry about that. Only expensive part that you need is a digital scale, the rest is basic stuff.
Most of the stuff is non-toxic (reasonably so!). In the "good old days" people used ingridients that makes you wonder how we ever coined the term "old photographer"!
Ilford makes a great developing agent "Phenidone" and it is quite potent as well as being non-allergenic. One of the developers that I mix is called PCK and it uses 0.3 grams of Phenidone in 500 ml of the A stock bath. That is enough to develop 30 rolls of Tri-X so a lb of it will last a long, long time. The other components are Vitamine C powder ( ascorbic acid) and Kodalk. The formula was concocted by Patrick Gainer " unblinking eye.com" and it is very similar to D-76/ID 11 with similar times and slightly better grain.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
VitoGuy said:
Whoa, I wouldn't even dream of operating an enlarger, that's too much for me
hats off to y'all darkroom-jockeys I do use a film scanner and do all post-processing digitally, so really what I need to do is just the development of the film into negatives... and you guys made it sounds so simple, I guess I just have to take the dive
JeremyR
Photography Geek
I am now considering self-development as well, as development in a lab can easily add up to around $7 per roll (given surcharges for push processing, etc.). It's also more than a little bit out of my way.
It sounds like some of the chemistry can have a long shelf life indeed. Based on what I've read here, it sounds like it would be more economical to self-develop, even for a relatively low volume of perhaps 1-2 rolls/month. Does the math actually work out? For relatively infrequent developing, is there anything I should be aware of concerning longevity of chemicals?
Cheers,
Jeremy
It sounds like some of the chemistry can have a long shelf life indeed. Based on what I've read here, it sounds like it would be more economical to self-develop, even for a relatively low volume of perhaps 1-2 rolls/month. Does the math actually work out? For relatively infrequent developing, is there anything I should be aware of concerning longevity of chemicals?
Cheers,
Jeremy
NickTrop
Veteran
Has anyone used York Photo for black and white prints? Yes, I like to develop and print. But sometimes there's a backlog, especially with printing. It's hard to keep up with it. Although they only do 135 (not MF):
6x4: $1.95 for 24 exposures, 3.15 for 36
5x7: $4.95 for 24, 6.97 for 36
black and white is $1.50 extra for processing
shipping and handling is $1.30 per roll.
So, a roll of 24 frames, b&w, comes to about $4.80, shipped. My guess is this is where pharmacies send their black and white stuff and charge a nice mark-up, and also where they send color when you don't want it in an hour.
You mail to them with free mailers they send you or you print our from their site. I have an account with them but haven't used them yet. Their prices are the least expensive I've seen. Not sure how good they are though.
If interested: http://www.yorkphoto.com/home/t_=87421405
6x4: $1.95 for 24 exposures, 3.15 for 36
5x7: $4.95 for 24, 6.97 for 36
black and white is $1.50 extra for processing
shipping and handling is $1.30 per roll.
So, a roll of 24 frames, b&w, comes to about $4.80, shipped. My guess is this is where pharmacies send their black and white stuff and charge a nice mark-up, and also where they send color when you don't want it in an hour.
You mail to them with free mailers they send you or you print our from their site. I have an account with them but haven't used them yet. Their prices are the least expensive I've seen. Not sure how good they are though.
If interested: http://www.yorkphoto.com/home/t_=87421405
40oz
...
JeremyR said:
The HC-110 syrup apparently lasts as long as you'd ever care to let it sit. I have no idea how long fixer lasts, but it won't go bad in a few months under a sink. Other than some sort of photoflo type rinse, which probably lasts as long as water, there really aren't any other chemicals involved in just developing negatives. Even if you use "the expensive stuff," it's pretty cheap. If you use HC-110, $50 in chemicals would last you several years at a rate of a few rolls a month.
I've never bothered with a per-roll breakdown, but it isn't much. You can re-use fixer quite a few times, a small bottle of HC-110 for $12-15 will do at least 40 rolls of film, and a small ~$4 bottle of wetting agent will probably outlast eveything else. You're looking at maybe $10 for enough fixer for 10 rolls if you never re-use it, 40 or more if you do. So we have perhaps $30 for processing 40 rolls of film, conservatively. It can be done cheaper, and you can spend more if you want. But less than $1 a roll is a safe estimate.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Besides that it's much cheaper it is also fun and you get CONTROL.
S
Socke
Guest
Xmas said:
I combine that
When the film is in the tank I usually agitate while watching tv.
Screwy
All the gear no idea
You might plan on only developing a few rolls a month , but I found that the fact I could shoot a roll then develop it as soon as I got home means that I develop a couple of rolls a week now
Paul
Paul
NickTrop
Veteran
Processing is dirt cheap, especially if you reuse your fixer and don't used one-shot developers but it's still cheap even if you do. I use Diafine and Rodinal both of which last forever. I do this less so for the cost factor than for the convenience of always having developer, which hasn't expired, on-hand. Diafine for that extra "push", Rodinal for slow to medium speed films.
Development is not what costs money for black and white. Do your own, by all means. You should develop your own. That's the whole "thing" about black and white.
Printing is where things gets pricey because of paper costs and wasted prints because there's some guess work (always) involved in terms of exposure times and aperture values, this is especially when you're first learning. If you plan to print your own, I would stick with 5X7 paper for a while until you get the hang of it.
Development is not what costs money for black and white. Do your own, by all means. You should develop your own. That's the whole "thing" about black and white.
Printing is where things gets pricey because of paper costs and wasted prints because there's some guess work (always) involved in terms of exposure times and aperture values, this is especially when you're first learning. If you plan to print your own, I would stick with 5X7 paper for a while until you get the hang of it.
NL2377
*scratches head*
It cost's me about $1.00 a roll for developing using rodinal
anglophone1
Well-known
My lab local lab [only one left on French Mediterranean coast] has now stopped processing b/w, so 30 years since the last time I have just bought a tank some rodinal , fixer and a thermometer.
Progress!
Clive
www.clive-evans.com
Progress!
Clive
www.clive-evans.com
amateriat
We're all light!
Self-development generally follows NASA doctrine: better, faster, cheaper. And, unlike wet-printing, you certainly do not need a darkroom, dedicated or otherwise, to soup your film; a changing bag allows you to pop open film cassettes and load reels wherever in your household you feel like working. (I scan all my film, as there's no room here for a darkroom of any sort.)
The list of required gear is fairly simple, too, although you can get fancy if you like: steel reels/tanks vs. plastic (both have their adherents, but I prefer the former), electric film dryers (I have a Prinz hanging film dryer I got off the 'Bay two years ago for about $30, and love it, but you can even build one yourself, and I think such a setup helps keep dust and grit to a minimum when drying film), and rapid fim washers (which help keep water usage to a minimum while speeding up the process considerably...I still need to buy one of those). With care, all these items will last a crazy-long time, and easily pay for themselves compared to handing your film off to a specialty lab (if you think $6/roll, uncut and sans contact sheet, is expnsive, you should see what the tab is from a decent lab in NYC...but most of these labs are decent-quality).
In short, it's worth the effort, and – most of the time, anyway – actually enjoyable.
- Barrett
The list of required gear is fairly simple, too, although you can get fancy if you like: steel reels/tanks vs. plastic (both have their adherents, but I prefer the former), electric film dryers (I have a Prinz hanging film dryer I got off the 'Bay two years ago for about $30, and love it, but you can even build one yourself, and I think such a setup helps keep dust and grit to a minimum when drying film), and rapid fim washers (which help keep water usage to a minimum while speeding up the process considerably...I still need to buy one of those). With care, all these items will last a crazy-long time, and easily pay for themselves compared to handing your film off to a specialty lab (if you think $6/roll, uncut and sans contact sheet, is expnsive, you should see what the tab is from a decent lab in NYC...but most of these labs are decent-quality).
In short, it's worth the effort, and – most of the time, anyway – actually enjoyable.
- Barrett
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JeremyR
Photography Geek
This all sounds very encouraging. I think I'll buy a tank and some chemicals and see how it goes!