RD-1 now, or save and get an M8 later?

RIVI1969

RIVI1969

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Hello,


I just want to get some advice from RD1/M8 users... The story is this: photography is basically my passion and hobby even though it helps me from time to time to make a little extra with photo assignments I do myself for my ad agency clients. (product shots, macros etc) Because of that I sold a few months ago my Epson R-D1 with my 3 lenses in order to get a SLR Nikon D80 outfit (which I love and I am going to keep).

Once I sell my Digilux 2 I will have close to 3000 dlls in my photographic fund . I am thinking in get another RD1, a Digilux 3 or maybe wait until christmas and get an M8. My main concern with the Epson is its costumer service; (any possible repair needs freaks me out) with the D3 is its size which I believe is as big as my Nikon so maybe is senseless to get another system that size (and well, the price on the M8)


What would you do in this scenario? Any comments will be very appreciate!

Regards,
Ricardo Villagran
 
I would have kept the R-D1 in the first place. :p

It's really your money and you must decide which way to spend it. You name a few reasons but I'm sure you're not telling us all and everything. That's just human nature. If you're not sure what to buy, don't buy anything right now. Let's see what X-mas brings.
 
RML said:
I would have kept the R-D1 in the first place. :p

It's really your money and you must decide which way to spend it. You name a few reasons but I'm sure you're not telling us all and everything. That's just human nature. If you're not sure what to buy, don't buy anything right now. Let's see what X-mas brings.
Click to expand...

Agree.

If you really want a DRF, you've only got two choices and you've more or less discounted the R-D1, so keep saving.
 
I'd go for the RD1 and start saving for an M8. Over the short term the RD1 seems to be repairable, at least the rangefinder which is the main problem. Over the long term the M8 is the only viable solution. Meanwhile, the RD1 might last for years. And during that time you can start building a compiment of lenses that you can use on your new(or used) M8 when you can finally afford it

Rex
 
shutterflower said:
what if some new technology renders the CCD obsolete? What if pixels are no longer the measure that divides the masses? Perhaps foveon is only a step in the right direction.

Buying an M8 seems risky. I'm waiting to see what happens with Sigma's sensor. I want to see how the others respond. I want to see what's next.
Click to expand...

Next is like tomorrow - it never comes :)
 
R-D1 appears to be repairable by standard rangefinder guys - the two main issues are RF alignment and (rare) shutter failure. Both have been repaired by 3rd party repairers without access to Epson parts and support. Given that its getting on for a third of the price of the M8 I think its actually a lower risk longer term (in fact it could easily cost less than an out of warranty repair for an M8).
The only failure issue so far with the M8 seems to be the sudden death, that worries me a lot more than the mechanical issues that the RD1 has.
If its about the money then the R-D1 has to be it. I guess its a bit like buying a new car vs a used car. You'll "lose" less on the R-D1 than the M8 in absolute terms (and probably relative terms). It will be interesting to see how the secondhand market prices a used out of warranty M8...
Having said all this, I'll still probably buy one (M8) for the RF baselength and 1/8000th shutter speed and lower min ISO...
 
Digital cameras are like PCs: There will always be a better one tomorrow. Buy for what you need now. If it's a luxury you might be able to wait a while and see what the new year brings. But remember: You can't take any pictures on the camera you'll buy tomorrow.

/T
 
shutterflower said:
Ain't that the truth! And so it goes that I never buy digital cameras for keeps.
Click to expand...

George,

With the RF645 and that scanner of your's, I don't think you need a digital ;)
 
shutterflower said:
what if some new technology renders the CCD obsolete? What if pixels are no longer the measure that divides the masses? Perhaps foveon is only a step in the right direction.

Buying an M8 seems risky. I'm waiting to see what happens with Sigma's sensor. I want to see how the others respond. I want to see what's next.
Click to expand...

What if there is something beyond Foveon? Whilst waiting for the ultimate and final camera, which is bound to be a very long wait, a whole lot of photographs you could have taken have have come and gone. In the meantime, the quality of current sensors is so good, that the putative better quality in the future seems rather uninteresting. The limiting factor is not technical, but biological: the viewing power of the human eye. And current technology is pretty close to that limit.
 
jaapv said:
The limiting factor is not technical, but biological
Click to expand...

That's also true in a different sense: I'm alive and healthy to enjoy life and photography today. Tomorrow is always uncertain. I'm currently in a holding pattern over the M8 mainly because I don't have the pioneer temperment, but I bought an RD1 for interim use and eventual relegation to being a backup for an M8, not as an alternative. And I only bought it because I could get a demo with a year's warranty for about the price of a Nikon D200, which made the risks more sensible to me.
 
Hmmm. I'm a recent convert to RF photography having purchased a R-D1. Having said that I know that the future is really only possible with an M8 - unless the R-D2 is waiting in the wings (unlikely). So, if it was me, and I already had used an R-D1 and then sold it, I'd hold out until I could afford the M8, as you already know all the annoying quirks about the R-D1 :)

LouisB
 
Digital cameras are consumables - throw-away items. They are unlikely to ever be designed so as to be future-proofed, i.e. with replaceable/upgradable sensor, hardware, firmware, media slot.

It seems to me that $5k is a lot to spend for a digital that is highly unlikely to have the longevity, not to say collectability, of earlier Leica cameras - unless you are a pro and the M8 does things for you that pro digitals from Nikon, Canon, etc can't. And of course Ricardo is looking at spending a lot more than $5k as he needs to replace the M-mount lenses he sold with his first R-D1.

My personal limit on spending for throw-away technology is about $2k - or what I would spend on a laptop. So for me the (used) R-D1 was a no-brainer.

Leica COULD build a future-proof M: build a digital back for an MP top end. But they won't, so I will keep shelling out $2k every 3-5 years for whatever non-Leica digital is newest and greatest.

And keep my M lenses and M film bodies.

- John
 
With all due respect, but RD-1 is water under the brigde with it's 6 mill. pixels and 1,5 crop. The best you can get of a digital RF camera is the M8. It is a leap in development compared to the RD-1 and is supported by a far more dedicated service organisation than Epson's.

On the other hand; I would strongly advice you to stick to one camera system. You have to make up your mind; the Nikon or the Leica.
 
Olsen said:
With all due respect, but RD-1 is water under the brigde with it's 6 mill. pixels and 1,5 crop. The best you can get of a digital RF camera is the M8. It is a leap in development compared to the RD-1 and is supported by a far more dedicated service organisation than Epson's.

On the other hand; I would strongly advice you to stick to one camera system. You have to make up your mind; the Nikon or the Leica.
Click to expand...

"...but the rd-1 is water under the bridge..."
this is the exact mentality the manufacturers love to see or hear! the r-d1 and r-d1s take excellant photographs. i currently use an r-d1 and a r-d1s very heavily. like 100-200 frames daily with no problems so far. they are capable of great prints and produce awesome files. plain and simple.
the constant megapixel full frame race is going to be 1 thing... constant. the MINUTE you plonk down for the m8 or nikon d3 they'll be on the way to being "long in the tooth" or "obsolete". it's a crock if you ask me and consumers eat it up. i currently shoot on no camera above 6 megapixels and REGULARLY show and sell my work. buy the r-d1 and strat shooting tomorrow... spend the rest of the dough you have left over on an epson 2400 and do some printing. i cannot tell you how many folks i have met who have $2000-$3000 woth of gear and don't have a printer.
if you can afford an m8.. get one. shoot lot's of photograph's. if you can afford an r-d1 then get one of those... shoot lot's of photograph's. that's my 2 cents...
cheers
john
 
emraphoto said:
"...but the rd-1 is water under the bridge..."
this is the exact mentality the manufacturers love to see or hear! the r-d1 and r-d1s take excellant photographs. i currently use an r-d1 and a r-d1s very heavily. like 100-200 frames daily with no problems so far. they are capable of great prints and produce awesome files. plain and simple.
the constant megapixel full frame race is going to be 1 thing... constant. the MINUTE you plonk down for the m8 or nikon d3 they'll be on the way to being "long in the tooth" or "obsolete". it's a crock if you ask me and consumers eat it up. i currently shoot on no camera above 6 megapixels and REGULARLY show and sell my work. buy the r-d1 and strat shooting tomorrow... spend the rest of the dough you have left over on an epson 2400 and do some printing. i cannot tell you how many folks i have met who have $2000-$3000 woth of gear and don't have a printer.
if you can afford an m8.. get one. shoot lot's of photograph's. if you can afford an r-d1 then get one of those... shoot lot's of photograph's. that's my 2 cents...
cheers
john
Click to expand...

Agreed. Well said.
 
I have read these comments with some interest. The "right" answer is inevitably idiosyncratic -- that is specific to the person asking the question. At the moment I have both of these cameras and am happy using both. If I had to choose one, I'd choose the M8 because I can use it with a wider variety of lenses. But if you don't have a Noctilux or a 90/2 AA or another lens with a similar rf accuracy requirement, then the reason for my answer kind of goes away. Choose what you will use and then go make pictures.

Ben
 
Thank you guys for all your comments,

I am going to keep the D80 for specific reasons so I will follow the advice to get a used RD1 -in fact the friend who bought mine is willing to sell it back to me- keep saving and worry about the future when the future arrives... (I think I will go today for the Nokton 1.5 I just saw for sale) -I don't see why I do have to choose between systems and keep only one- Thanks!!
 
Too right, I have an R-D1 with a few lenses and am also about to buy a Nikon D80 (and, of course, lenses). They are entirely different pieces of kit for very different jobs.

Good luck with the R-D1, hope you are happier with it this time!
 
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