-kk-
Established
hi guys, been plowing through tons of posts from this forum, and probably am more confused than before i started!
a bit of background first: ive been shooting seriously for about 5 years on canon systems, and before that on an OLD minolta SLR that my dad had since the 70s or so.
im quite interested in getting a RF system, most likely with b/w shooting in mind. the bessa lines looks interesting to be because of its price point and availability, so Id like to understand the options a bit more.
3 to start with
1) i notice there are magnification figures for each model, would this be similar to crop factors in canons (1.3 or 1.6x) and nikons (1.5x)? ie so when using a 50mm lens, the actual POV is actually closer?
2) i usually shoot more street and landscape, so looking for a standard and a wide angle. any 'legendary' lenses i should be aware of? what are the value buys?
3) how are the fit/finish in the bessa models? does the r4m use a different
material from the r4a? (ie metal finish?). essentially, are they reliable road cameras?
ok... those are the most pressing ones for now.... back to combing through the forums, but look forward to learning more from you guys.
cheers,
kelvin
a bit of background first: ive been shooting seriously for about 5 years on canon systems, and before that on an OLD minolta SLR that my dad had since the 70s or so.
im quite interested in getting a RF system, most likely with b/w shooting in mind. the bessa lines looks interesting to be because of its price point and availability, so Id like to understand the options a bit more.
3 to start with
1) i notice there are magnification figures for each model, would this be similar to crop factors in canons (1.3 or 1.6x) and nikons (1.5x)? ie so when using a 50mm lens, the actual POV is actually closer?
2) i usually shoot more street and landscape, so looking for a standard and a wide angle. any 'legendary' lenses i should be aware of? what are the value buys?
3) how are the fit/finish in the bessa models? does the r4m use a different
material from the r4a? (ie metal finish?). essentially, are they reliable road cameras?
ok... those are the most pressing ones for now.... back to combing through the forums, but look forward to learning more from you guys.
cheers,
kelvin
-kk-
Established
oh yes, an important piece of info, i shoot in available light, and very often in low light, so fast lenses are a must.
while were on that, whats with all the different names eg nokton, skopar etc?
while were on that, whats with all the different names eg nokton, skopar etc?
fishtek
Don
Hey, Kelvin!
Welcome to the forum! Lotsa good folks here, with loads of information. The magnification number you see refer to the view from the viewfinder...nothing to do with the crop factor you're used to seeing with the DSLR.
Standard/wide angle preferences are all over the place. 50mm is widely considered a standard lens, but many prefer 35 for their "standard" lens. I've got both, but tend to prefer the 35...for no apparent reason. My wide-angle lens is a 21mm/f4.
the fit and finish of the Bessa cameras are fine. Leicas are better in that regard, yeah, but the prices are considerably higher, too. I own the Bessa R, screw mount, and think it's fine.
The R2/R3 cameras differ in their viewfinder configuration, and the A/M refers to manual or auto exposure availability. Go to CameraQuest.com for the definitive info site...there's solid information, reviews, and details all over the place.
Lotsa guys here know more than me, so they'll either add to or correct what I've told you.
Regards!
Don
Welcome to the forum! Lotsa good folks here, with loads of information. The magnification number you see refer to the view from the viewfinder...nothing to do with the crop factor you're used to seeing with the DSLR.
Standard/wide angle preferences are all over the place. 50mm is widely considered a standard lens, but many prefer 35 for their "standard" lens. I've got both, but tend to prefer the 35...for no apparent reason. My wide-angle lens is a 21mm/f4.
the fit and finish of the Bessa cameras are fine. Leicas are better in that regard, yeah, but the prices are considerably higher, too. I own the Bessa R, screw mount, and think it's fine.
The R2/R3 cameras differ in their viewfinder configuration, and the A/M refers to manual or auto exposure availability. Go to CameraQuest.com for the definitive info site...there's solid information, reviews, and details all over the place.
Lotsa guys here know more than me, so they'll either add to or correct what I've told you.
Regards!
Don
Uwe_Nds
Chief Assistant Driver
Welcome Kelvin,
I got into rangefinders the cheap way: an old Former Soviet Union (aka. FSU) FED5 with its Industar-61, which I bought in Prague.
I thought that if it didn't take decent pictures, it would at least be a decent paperweight.
Actually, I was surprised that the lens did perform quite well.
Ok, next was a Jupiter-12 35/2.8 mm lens (which unfortunately does not fit the Bessa series) and so on.
The Bessa series in my opinion are a good basis to build up a RF-system. Haven't tried them myself, but I trust the opinions of the fellow members here.
For a 50 mm lens on a budget I suggest a Jupiter-8 50/2.0 - actually not only if you're on a budget; get one anyway!
If you are opting for a M-mount camera and budget is not too tight, I suggest the Konica M-Hexanon 50/2.0 which is still available new for around 250 - 300 €. This lens is good enough for me to cure my lust for Leica glass.
Well, that's my personal experience and opinion. I hope that I can report about the M-Hexanon 28/2.8 and 35/2.0 soon. The 28 arrived already and the 35 should be on its way...
Oh, there should be a government warning on rangefinders or at least in this forum:
Warning: rangefinders can seriously damage your bank account.
Best regards,
Uwe
I got into rangefinders the cheap way: an old Former Soviet Union (aka. FSU) FED5 with its Industar-61, which I bought in Prague.
I thought that if it didn't take decent pictures, it would at least be a decent paperweight.
Actually, I was surprised that the lens did perform quite well.
Ok, next was a Jupiter-12 35/2.8 mm lens (which unfortunately does not fit the Bessa series) and so on.
The Bessa series in my opinion are a good basis to build up a RF-system. Haven't tried them myself, but I trust the opinions of the fellow members here.
For a 50 mm lens on a budget I suggest a Jupiter-8 50/2.0 - actually not only if you're on a budget; get one anyway!
If you are opting for a M-mount camera and budget is not too tight, I suggest the Konica M-Hexanon 50/2.0 which is still available new for around 250 - 300 €. This lens is good enough for me to cure my lust for Leica glass.
Well, that's my personal experience and opinion. I hope that I can report about the M-Hexanon 28/2.8 and 35/2.0 soon. The 28 arrived already and the 35 should be on its way...
Oh, there should be a government warning on rangefinders or at least in this forum:
Warning: rangefinders can seriously damage your bank account.
Best regards,
Uwe
jobo
Established
There is no crop factor on 135 film (unless you talk half frame cameras or panoramics). The magnification is in the viewfinder only, and does not change when you change lenses. 1:1 (R3*) is great for 40mm+ lenses, .52 (R4*) for -35mm, and .7 does a bit of everything.-kk- said:
For new lenses with high resolution on a budget, Mr K (read Voigtlaender) has what you need.-kk- said:
They might not stop a bullet, as Leicas have done, but I would put them up against any consumer DSLR...-kk- said:
2c, /J
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Axel
singleshooter
Hi,-kk- said:
no crops on focal length. The magnification means a factor the viewfinder represents.
On all rangefinders you will get FF - full format every time and a focal length always will be as is marked on the lens.
Regards, Axel
-kk-
Established
hi guys,
thanks for the quick reply. am kinda blushing now for asking the 'crop' question. Good thing i didnt ask if there was auto focus huh?
its been a very enlightening 2 hours. if i had to pick right now, a R4M + colour-skopar 35 f/2.5 looks like a good starter kit for my 'back to basics' trip. not too sure bout the lenses, seem to be a compromise between size and wider f stop. the brightest lens Ive had was a f1.8, and the brightest i currently own is a canon 135L f2.0 (and just for background info, most used lens is a 24-105 f4), i think f2.5 will serve me well...
whilst i do want this to be a low light secret weapon, wonder if an f1.7 etc will be overkill. i guess its only natural to want a f1.2 or such, but probably makes no 'practical' difference....
(runs off to scan web for reviews on 35 f2.5)
cant wait to get into the store and try it out!
thanks for the quick reply. am kinda blushing now for asking the 'crop' question. Good thing i didnt ask if there was auto focus huh?
its been a very enlightening 2 hours. if i had to pick right now, a R4M + colour-skopar 35 f/2.5 looks like a good starter kit for my 'back to basics' trip. not too sure bout the lenses, seem to be a compromise between size and wider f stop. the brightest lens Ive had was a f1.8, and the brightest i currently own is a canon 135L f2.0 (and just for background info, most used lens is a 24-105 f4), i think f2.5 will serve me well...
whilst i do want this to be a low light secret weapon, wonder if an f1.7 etc will be overkill. i guess its only natural to want a f1.2 or such, but probably makes no 'practical' difference....
(runs off to scan web for reviews on 35 f2.5)
cant wait to get into the store and try it out!
R
RML
Guest
Well, I can easily get away with my CV 25/4 for available light shots. Hand holding a rangefinder isn't nearly as difficult as an SLR at slow shutter speeds. With some practice and controlled breathing you should be able to easily do 1/8 sec, and even be able to do 1/4 sec or 1/2 sec at least 50% of the time.
Follow the following links for some handheld shots at slow speeds:
Night shots of Amsterdam
Music performance
Van Gogh museum at night
Follow the following links for some handheld shots at slow speeds:
Night shots of Amsterdam
Music performance
Van Gogh museum at night
Last edited by a moderator:
-kk-
Established
RML nice shots, and I was thinking the same thing about handholding a RF vs SLR.. should be a much smaller package.
btw, is it possible to take the bessa out when its raining or is this a no no?
btw, is it possible to take the bessa out when its raining or is this a no no?
dostacos
Dan
Legendary the 35/2.5 could be called that. great little lens.
low light Voightlander offerings:
28/1.9
35/1.2
35/1.7
40/1.4
50/1.5
the 1.2 35 is huge by rangefinder standards [search for THE BEAST]
the 40 comes in both single and multi coating forms, the guys that have it seem to love it and will use it with the 35 or 50 framelines if they don't have the R3A/M
low light Voightlander offerings:
28/1.9
35/1.2
35/1.7
40/1.4
50/1.5
the 1.2 35 is huge by rangefinder standards [search for THE BEAST]
the 40 comes in both single and multi coating forms, the guys that have it seem to love it and will use it with the 35 or 50 framelines if they don't have the R3A/M
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
The Voigtlanders are all built on a metal chassis with plastic outer panels. The surface of the outside it finished in several different ways; there's a couple of different blacks and a grey at least.
I would not worry about a few spots of rain, but would stay indoors during a monsoon. If it looks like rain I would keep any camera inside my jacket and wear a hat with a brim to keep me dry and also to protect the camera whilst making photos.
Depending on your budget you may want to look into Zeiss Ikon, at about twice the Voigtlander price. It's built in the same Cosina factory as the Voigtlander but apparantly to higher standards, and with metal outer panels.
I would not worry about a few spots of rain, but would stay indoors during a monsoon. If it looks like rain I would keep any camera inside my jacket and wear a hat with a brim to keep me dry and also to protect the camera whilst making photos.
Depending on your budget you may want to look into Zeiss Ikon, at about twice the Voigtlander price. It's built in the same Cosina factory as the Voigtlander but apparantly to higher standards, and with metal outer panels.
R
RML
Guest
I've taken my Bessa to India and Mongolia, both during summer and winter. The Bessa isn't a water proof camera so leaving it out in the rain is definitely not a good idea. But it can handle a bit of spray. That's why I carried a small towel with me all the time, one of those light weight travel towels that absorb loads of water, to wipe the camera body now and then. The Bessa will also simply do its job in dusty and/or subzero environments. As with everything, a little common sense goes a long way. Keep your camera sheltered when the climate turns extreme(ish), keep it warm to prevent battery drain in cold environs, keep it dry when possible, and keep shooting it so it stays in good working order.
-kk-
Established
ok, so i think ive narrowed it down to a couple of possible combinations:
1) R3* + nokton 40/1.4
2) R4* + colour skopar 35/2.5P II
3) R3M + 50/2 (long shot, given slightly elevated price, but will check it out nonetheless)
50mm is about as close as Id like to get, looking to get wide, maybe with the 21 (in which case R4* is preferred) or even the ultra wides eg 15 or 12mm.
I have to say though, i think the 1:1 viewfinder in the R3* can be the clincher, in which case, i may go for either a 40 or 50 as the resident lens, and a 12 or 15 as the wide angle.
regarding the M or A versions, AP is nice to have, but not essential, much will depend on how i like the feel and look of each one.
so there you go, still somewhat undecided (probably wil be changing mind the more i read as well!), but have a clearer idea of my options.
choosing ONE will not be easy!
1) R3* + nokton 40/1.4
2) R4* + colour skopar 35/2.5P II
3) R3M + 50/2 (long shot, given slightly elevated price, but will check it out nonetheless)
50mm is about as close as Id like to get, looking to get wide, maybe with the 21 (in which case R4* is preferred) or even the ultra wides eg 15 or 12mm.
I have to say though, i think the 1:1 viewfinder in the R3* can be the clincher, in which case, i may go for either a 40 or 50 as the resident lens, and a 12 or 15 as the wide angle.
regarding the M or A versions, AP is nice to have, but not essential, much will depend on how i like the feel and look of each one.
so there you go, still somewhat undecided (probably wil be changing mind the more i read as well!), but have a clearer idea of my options.
choosing ONE will not be easy!