Heliar 50 f2: worth it?

[-kk-]

hi guys, am seriously considering splurging for the 250th anny set to get this lens, but have heard very little about it.

for those who have used it, whats the verdict? is it worth the (slight) premium? im in the market for a body/lens package anyway, and this is one of the option. others being R3A/nokton 40, or the R4A/skopar 35. FWIW, I shoot mainly b/w.

Id be very interest to hear/ see what folks think of this lens.

thanks in advance.

kelvin

 

[kully]

Hallo Kelvin,

There are quite a few different types of camera setup there.

I've had the 50/2 for a few months now and it's bad points are a close focus of only 1 metre and a rather old fashioned (soft, low-contarst) look wide open. But I like that. Don't buy it for collapsing - they should have skipped this and made it straight-up rigid because the movement is puny.

I have the 40/1.4 and if I could only have one lens - it would be this. But that's just me.

Remember that the anniversary sets come with mechanical shutter Bessas with no AE, I mention this because your other choices are the R3a and R4a.

My R2a and R2m will both focus the 40/1.4 at f/1.4 with some difficulty, the R4a is going to be worse still at wide apertures.

Things to decide:

- AE or not?
- Wide or standard/mild wide?
- low light?


EDIT: And what camera(s) are you using now?

 

[Avotius]

You can buy the lens without buying the set btw. Im not a big fan of this lens, none of the images I have seen taken with it (especially bw) seem to pop at me. From a numbers only point of view I hear that its a great piece of kit. If it was me I would save for the zeiss planar 50 then get a bessa but thats just me because I also like to shoot color film.

 

[kully]

I'm with Avotius there, it's not to be covetted. I actually prefer the look (but not the size) of the CV 50/1.5... 🙂

 

[-kk-]

hi guys, thanks for the quick response.

kully, im coming from the canon dslr world, and before that minolta slrs.

AE or not is not a big deal for me, final decision (or A or M) will be made by which finish feels better. I do like the metering readout on the M better though. the thought (since i havent seem them in the metal, remains a thought for now!) of a 1:1 viewfinder is quite interesting, and between this and the LED, may just swing it in favour of the R3M for me.

yes low light ability is a must, hence the attaction of the nokton's 1.4.

i also plan to go wide, which is where the R4s come into play. to be fair, Id likely opt for a much wider lens eg 15mm, so makes little diff if its R3 or R4 in that case.

to confirm, are you saying it may be hard to focus wide open on the R4* because of
the viewfinder magnification?

 

[kully]

Yes. Someone who actually owns a R4x can confirm, but I can just about put up with the R2a and 1.4 handheld. I'm sure you could focus with the R4x on a tripod.. but then there's not much point in getting a RF!

Finish wise, there's nothing in it. My R2m has a slightly lower pitched shutter than my R2a, but nothing to base a buying decision on (really, you have to listen for it). The R2m has a "improved" rewind lever, although I find it snags when taking it in and out of bags. Personally, I prefer the finish of the R2a as well.

🙂 That sounds like a big downer for the R2m - but I do prefer it for low-light, the half-stop metering is better than the "move aperture three clicks and stay on one shutter speed" metering of the R2a.

Bah, you'll be pleased with any of them.

 

[Photog9001]

the short answer; yes.

but as others have mentioned, it's not all that contrasty wide open, it focuses "only" to 1m, hardly collapses. personally i think the world has seen enough photos with nothing but contrast, but then, that's just me.

another just me, it feels so "right" in my hands. yeah, whatever that means 😉
if only it had a focusing tab...


btw, what's the going price for an m3 and a summicron of a similar age? if it isn't miles higher, it's more than worth considering...

 

[kshapero]

I have owned the R3A and R3M and both the 50mm f2 and the 40mm f1.4. My favorite combo is the 40mm with the R3M. The 50mm is a stop slower and the contrast wide open was not for me. With my current combo, I get the extra stop and I have better control of my etches. Isn't RF about available light? Then the duo rocks. BTW using the R3M (M stands for manual) is a cinch. Settings become pre thought as it were. So I can move fast as I need to.

 

[Malo1961]

Hi KK,
Have a look at the following link to see what the Heliar Classic 50/2.0 can do, in B&W and Color. Still ......as one of the pool members i have to say: It's always subjective to see this pictures in screen mode at 72 dpi. I'am very happy with the 250 year edition set.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/heliar_classic/
Best of luck with your decision.

Martin

 

[Platinum RF]

I bought this lens becasue of 'special' the three cemented elments (five glass elements). I only have time to go through one roll. here is my impression. at f2 is bit soft ( I think they stretch the f3.5 to f2 too much) however, at f2 is very usable better than collapsible Summicron. color is kind of warm skin tone ( I use a Fuji ASA400 negative). not compact, well build better than other Cosina lens. 1.0 m closest distance is not that critical on RF camera, you either get a telelens to get close or go for SLR for amcro.

 

[steve garza]

Heliar can be used in low light.....

Heliar can be used in low light.....

I'm not so sure low-light shooting is all that amenable to sharpness anyway. Here are a few examples of the Heliar in low light. F2/1/30, Neopan 400 @ 1600. I tend to like the lens in both low light and daylight. I will at some point purchase the 50mm asph 'lux for another look.

 

[John Noble]

I like mine a lot. OOF rendering is awesome, as seen in Steve's sample above.

Wider apertures give a kind of soft-ish vintage look, which I happen to love, but it's a matter of taste.

 

[photophorous]

It's my first 50mm rangefinder lens, so I can't compare it to anything other than my Nikon AF 50/1.8. It beats the crap out of my Nikon in every respect. It is solidly built. Although it only collapses about 1 cm, I find that to be a useful feature. OOF is very nice. I debated between this lens and a BGN grade Summicron from KEH. I'm not sure which would have been "better," but I have no regrets. I use it on an R2A, which I'm also very pleased with.

Good luck with your decision.

Paul

 

[Bébèrt]

I have bought the 250 aniv set and think it os a very fine lens to use and even just to look at.

Here is en extract out of an PopPhoto magazine artikel

The second exception appeared about six months ago when
Voigtländer, founded in 1756, introduced a 250-year anniversary
version of its Bessa R2M and R3M, all-mechanical 35mm rangefinder
cameras, along with a 50mm f/2 Heliar lens in a collapsible M mount.
A Heliar? Was Voigtländer just picking a name from the past or did the
lens really have only five elements? Expecting the worst, we subjected
the 50mm to SQF tests on Pop Photo's optical bench. The Heliar
turned out to be incredibly good, comparable at all apertures to the
50mm f/2 Leica Summicron-M we'd tested in 1996. Wondering how
Cosina achieved this, we pressed for the details.
Cosina, which produces all or most Voigtländer glass, replied: "Newly
developed, super high-index glass reduces all aberrations and allows
us to realize a fast (f/2) lens with five elements." The beautifully
constructed Heliar costs but a fraction of the Summicron.

 

[haagen_dazs]

the built and weight is very nice
very well constructed
almost as heavy as a 50cron chrome in weight.

 

[sockeyed]

You've obviously had some great advice already.

You haven't mentioned whether or not you wear glasses. If so, the R3A/M's can be a bit of a non-starter for you in the sense that you won't be able to see the 40mm framelines. I don't wear glasses (but am left-eyed), and I was challenged by the 40's. Nonetheless, I love the Nokton-40; I now shoot it as a 35mm on my R4M and Leica M6. I find a 25/40 combo on the R4M to be a great weekend kit. No problems focusing the 40 wide-open (yet). I wouldn't want to go to a 50mm on the R4M though.

This is the R4M + 40mm Nokton at about f/2

 

[mackigator]

I have the 50mm Heliar and it is a very nice lens that gives a beautiful classic look to images... but I am also thinking about selling it, as I have another very similar 50 that I like as well. My Heliar is mint; email or PM me if you want to talk me into selling. You could get into the Heliar pretty affordably this way, and put it on any body you choose.

My photos taken with this lens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clarkmackey/tags/voigtlanderheliar50mmf20collapsible/

See my thread about "sell or not sell" the Heliar:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40082

 

[-kk-]

sockeyed, i dont wear glasses, but I am left eyed. The framelines is still a question mark, and will likely remain one until I get a chance to test the R2, R3 and R4 side by side. If the R3* is a no go, I will likely revert to R2A/M and settle for some combo of 35/50.

or at least thats what im thinking today, seems to change everyday!

 

[-kk-]

mackigator, nice pics on the flickr gallery! as mentioned above, things are still very fluid, so no decision will be made soon. will keep your offer in mind though, thanks
.

 

[raid]

I would like a Heliar 50/3.5.