Where the h_ll is the cheap affordable digital RF?

[pizzahut88]

What a pity that Epson is giving up!
When people plan to buy stuff, I don't know about you.
But for me, there is a back-log and waiting list.

The Epson was given a ticket and waiting for cash from my wallet,
after the mortgage repayments, family vocation,
this and that . . .
and a few more lens . . . then it was Epson's turn.

The M8 isn't exactly viable for me.
And I just can't believe that more than 1/5 of people here on RFF could afford one.

So who is going to fill in the gap?
Did Epson consider the R-D1 to be a failure?
I can't believe it!

Manfred

 

[Bryce]

Unfortunately I don't think 'cheap' will become likely unless 'mass marketability' becomes a reality.
It is too bad.
Of course there is still the possibility of CV and or Zeiss arriving on the scene with their own model. Lets all hope!

 

[georgef]

I would prefer a bigger sensor than 6mp, I don't mind manual focusing, I like RFs and I LOVE my RD1. That was the nice intro....
...Now in temrs of marketing, RFs are dated, too expensive, with too many physical issues and liitations and they don't have the same sex-apeal as a CANON 1DmkXX with a 80-200 f.2.8 big-ass glass in front for those who need to compensate for "something" 😛

Before you chew my head off, realize the reasons people buy (and buy and buy) slrs and that they are the segment with the most sofisticated, expensive and repeat purchase equipment (and why they are waaaay more versartile than RFs): they are fast, light (the canon 400XT is lighter than my RD1) have a huge choice of lenses, they do not go off allignment when bumped etc. etc. The reason a $2K 6mp RD1 is off the market should be fairly obvious:angel:

Having said that, I sold my whole canon 1DmkI and L glass system and am in love with the RD1. But then again, I grew up with RFs and manual focus and can relate to the added time it takes to take a pic; I also cherish the mechanics of a well made piece of german engineering... so yes, I guess somewhere down the line I fell off the target group of digiphoto purchasers...

Right On😀 😀 . george

 

[anselwannab]

Huhhmm. I have a 70-200/2.8L IS and I consider it to be small...

I have a fool proof way to get RF's back in style. Let's start a rumor that SLRs cause cancer, no, no, no - Global Warming.

I think we need to look not at bringing back RFs, but rather how we can replace SLRs with something more in tune with the RF way of shooting. Stop trying to bring back the horse-less carriage and instead make a zero-emissions car. (Four post and a car analogy already, I trully am sorry.)

The bad news is that it will proabaly use new glass and be totally different physically.

Trying to bring back the RFs is like trying to kill CDs by trying to bring back record turntables with vacuum tubes. The old turntables made new may be totally awesome, but people are never going to go back. What you need is the RF equivilent of the iPOD.

Mark

 

[pizzahut88]

Be very surprise . . . our job is to educate.

Be very surprise . . . our job is to educate.

Huhhmm. I have a 70-200/2.8L IS and I consider it to be small...

I have a fool proof way to get RF's back in style. Let's start a rumor that SLRs cause cancer, no, no, no - Global Warming.

I think we need to look not at bringing back RFs, but rather how we can replace SLRs with something more in tune with the RF way of shooting. Stop trying to bring back the horse-less carriage and instead make a zero-emissions car. (Four post and a car analogy already, I trully am sorry.)

The bad news is that it will proabaly use new glass and be totally different physically.

Trying to bring back the RFs is like trying to kill CDs by trying to bring back record turntables with vacuum tubes. The old turntables made new may be totally awesome, but people are never going to go back. What you need is the RF equivilent of the iPOD.

Mark

Last time I was in Japan,
I walking into a huge record (LP) store, selling records only!
The Japanese have figured out, LPs make better sound with the best analog equipment. (tube amps)

So our job is to educate those around us,
how film, with enlargers will produce better colors, that digital cameras, and printer.
Afterall, even 16bit is only 16bit.

Believe it or not,
since going back to RF about two years ago,
I have influenced my dad, and brother to buy new film gears.
All of them now understanding how film although not as convenient, if you want to see results immediately, is actually more fun.



Manfred



Oh, add another buddy of mine, Gordon,
whom I am pestered for the past year,
He was using a Nikon D200, even he has succumbed, he bought a used Nikon FM4 recently.

 

[pvdhaar]

I too keep my fingers crossed that somewhere in time, an affordable M-mount digital will emerge. But at his point, my hopes aren't high.

Affordable cameras need to move in big numbers, and that is where the pain lies. The likes of Canon, Nikon etc. have very well established sales channels. There's not a camera shop that doesn't carry their DSLRs. But there's not a single store near where I live that had an Epson RD-1/RD-1s on display. Not a single one. Come to think of it, even the current Voigtlanders are almost impossible to get. This makes me think that the only reasons they're still manufactured is that there's someone very dedicated to photography (as opposed to creating shareholder value) in control at Cosina.

Any company contemplating the development of an affordable M-mount digital will have to factor in establishing sales channels that allow sufficient volume to recouperate the investment within a reasonable amount of time. Either that or they'll have to be bonkers..

 

[Bill58]

Wouldn't it be great if film made a comeback? Then everybody who has an overpriced, silver plastic digital whatever could go suck pondwater.

Seriously, we've witnessed a digital war like the cold war arms race and it ain't over yet. Where will it end? .......or will it?

However, if somebody came out w/ a reliable Digital RF in LTM or M (6MP would be fine) for no more than $1,000, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Dream on............

 

[Kevin]

My local pro lab in Germany has reported a surge in film development business. It is slowly making a comeback here.

 

[georgef]

I hate to be the devil's advocate, but saying film is or will make a comeback is like saying fountain pens will one day again replace word processing software😀

This has nothing to do with which medium is better for what, or liking film or not, and I fully agree with anselwannab: "What you need is the RF equivilent of the iPOD".

These are the times we live in. George

 

[glynjones]

Yes but the point here is that some people do still use fountain pens
There is still a market

The M8 seems to be selling OK, but too rich for my blood

But an affordable digital RF - would make a killing. Alright its a niche market, but so are rangefinders in general, and as we know they're doing OK

Glyn

 

[paragon]

P & S Digitals are getting better and better and better

 

[Paul T.]

In P&S it seems there's nothing even approached the old Olympus Mju/Stylus, with an f/2.8 lens with a 35mm FOV. Anything approaching those specs, like the Ricoh GR-D, is humungously expensive.

 

[thegadsby]

Do Epson think the RD-1 is a failure?

Do Epson think the RD-1 is a failure?

I doubt whether Epson really do judge the RD1 as a failure They always said they would do 10,000 units and thats what they seem to have done.

I think it was an exercise to produce a quality RF camera to complement their printing technologies and 10, 000 units was probably a good target for such a specialist camera.
Is Leica going to produce many more than that over the next 3 years?

Its a similar situation to Konica with the Hexar RF This was a limited production camera and once they had produced the require number of units that was that.

 

[Ben Z]

We mustn't forget that the RD-1 was offered at $3000 (in the US) right up until the end. At that price, for a 6MP camera with a short-base rangefinder and manual framelines, it never seemed like a bargain compared to the M8. That there were refurbs for $1400 with the online discount code is the only reason I own one, and at that it cost me $500 more than my 8MP refurb 20D. If Epson did restart production, let's say with the 10mp chip from the Nikon D200, they would have to sell it for under $2K to get my interest.

 

[paragon]

In P&S it seems there's nothing even approached the old Olympus Mju/Stylus, with an f/2.8 lens with a 35mm FOV. Anything approaching those specs, like the Ricoh GR-D, is humungously expensive.

The GRD, even with the creative kit is not really expensive if that is the type of P&S you want, (wide and fixed lens).

The Camera is maybe £300 in the UK - which, as i said, is a good price if you want wide and good glass, (for a modern P&S).

There are some tests somewhere comparing the GRD with the Leica DigiLux and the M6 with film.

There is no cheap RF digital and IMHO this is not a bad solution - especially at that price

(I do not have one, yet - I use a Canon A640 as my P&S digital - I am pleased with that)

 

[Terao]

I have a fool proof way to get RF's back in style. Let's start a rumor that SLRs cause cancer, no, no, no - Global Warming.

Better still, mention that they're a threat to national security and an al Qaeda weapon. You can't go and (easily) shoot bridges on a 130mm rangefinder lens 🙄
Get them banned under the PATRIOT act 🙂

 

[JoeV]

Affordable Exclusivity

Affordable Exclusivity

... is like saying fountain pens will one day again replace word processing software...

Perhaps you should become a member of this pen forum, and can discuss fountain pens in more earnest detail!

You're right, of course; fountain pens won't replace word processors. But in the context of rangefinders, they are an intriguing and growing niche market.

Personally, I don't want rangefinders or fountain pens to be 'commodified' by becoming mainstream. I don't want a crappy plastic rangefinder built like a Holga. Part of the appeal of rangefinders are their mechanics, which by definition isn't likely to be manufacturable at a price point available to the general photo buying public.

What we are asking for is exclusivity, but affordable exclusivity, affordable enough for me!🙂

 

[GeneW]

Good points brought forward in this thread. RF's are a niche market. The 35mm film SLR displaced RF's for all practical purposes because it was more versatile. In the digital world, there's not much traction for RF's. I wish there were -- if they were more affordable, I'd love one.

Gene

 

[back alley]

i'd go for an m8 or rd1 in a flash if i had the cash.
but i would also continue to shoot film as well for as long as i could.
i like both film & digital and rf is my life long preference.

 

[paragon]

In P&S it seems there's nothing even approached the old Olympus Mju/Stylus, with an f/2.8 lens with a 35mm FOV. Anything approaching those specs, like the Ricoh GR-D, is humungously expensive.

Paul, have a look at the B & W comparisons, between the M6, GRD and D-Lux 3

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1013&thread=23764796

plus photos on:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/sets/72157594271568487/

to compare the cameras

They are not mine, but from another forum and were taken by Mitch Alland