Richard Marks
Rexel
Joop van Heijgen said:Zitat:
Zitat von Joop van Heijgenhttp://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/29419-so-died.html#post307928
And the feeling with the MP......
Hi' Joop,
Exactly - we Emmaters are not alone in our frustration!
I realise Leica is a little, struggling cottage crafts company - but I do hope they're taking note of out pleas for just a bit of an improvement in:
a) quality control and;
b) customer care.
The latter being the more important in the longer term.
Just 1 simple question
Have you tried an M8?
Regards
Richard
Joop van Heijgen
Established
Richard Marks said:
A simple answer: Yes
I use M Leicas for more thans 30 years.
I know the M-Leica; inside and outside;
The M8 has still the M feeling, especially the viewfinder is still strong!
I worked with the M8 camera. The photoresults are rather good!
A few of my photofriends are working with the M8.
All of them had technical problems with the camera!
The concept of the M8 is nice, but the technical reliability of the M8 is not very
excellent!
Last edited:
Speenth
Emmaiter
Hi' Richard,Richard Marks said:
Yes, I have been the owner of an M8 for two months and it has been in for repair for one of those two months with no news of its return (currently 10 weeks and upwards I understand).
My issue is not even with the fact that it is broken - it is with the poor customer service. A Leica is an expensive bit of kit and more often than not, a professional's working tool. At the very least Leica should be routinely providing a replacement body while one's own camera is in for repair.
There is no doubt that Leica M8s are technically problematic and my wife's recently purchased D-Lux 3 has had problems too (intermittent no power on). The forums all reveal the extent of Leica's quality control problems. These issues are truly unacceptable - and it does the brand no service when its afficionados defend this situation - we should be the first to demand better - after all, we've already put our money where our mouths are!
I have owned a Pentax Spotmatic since 1968 - it is as good as the day it was bought - and the image quality (especially with the 50mm Takumar 1.4) compares with anything from Leica. That says a lot.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Excuse me??? There IS a difference between my two M8 bodies and my 3 year old overworked Digilux2....That one after three years of intensive use indeed succumbed to the dead sensor syndrome. Which is no big deal, as Leica will replace the sensor free of charge despite the fact that the camera has been off the market for some time now and my guarantee long expired.Since you mentioned it, I think that is excellent customer care. In the meanwhile I will happily be shooting my M8's and my wife will use the C-lux1 for the time being. Quite apart from the M3 with Kodachrome..... reading posts is advised before talking through your hatJoop van Heijgen said:
Last edited:
Joop van Heijgen
Established
jaapv said:Excuse me??? There IS a difference between my two M8 bodies and my 3 year old overworked Digilux2....That one after three years of intensive use indeed succumbed to the dead sensor syndrome. Which is no big deal, as Leica will replace the sensor free of charge despite the fact that the camera has been off the market for some time now and my guarantee long expired.In the meanwhile I will happily be shooting my M8's and my wife will use the C-lux1 for the time being. Quite apart from the M3 with Kodachrome..... reading posts is advised
"Excuse me??? There IS a difference between my two M8 bodies and my 3 year old overworked Digilux2...."
They are both digital Leica cameras! Leica is the name!
'Three years intensive use' for a digital Leica camera is indeed very long...
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I'm starting to get the feeling that you are confusing cameras, brands and forums. I don't buy names, I buy cameras.
Joop van Heijgen
Established
jaapv said:
Cameras has a name, and you have to pay for it, specially Leica! :bang:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Personally I do not find Leica especially expensive, compared to other hand-built or semi-handbuilt products, nor to similar level cameras from other brands, even if they can hardly be compared.
I don't particularly think so - it is always the few with problems that are the most vocal. The Internet magnifies everything vastly out of proportion.Joop van Heijgen said:
Last edited:
Joop van Heijgen
Established
jaapv said:
"it is always the few with problems that are the most vocal'
You belongs to the few on internet who are enthusiastly of the M8!
Most of the M8 users keeps their success with this camera secret...
Last edited:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
They're out taking photographs -not spouting forth on the forums late at night....
Richard Marks
Rexel
HiJoop van Heijgen said:
I think we have come round to this sort of discussion a few months ago and ultimately we have no true measure of the incidence of probelms. For my part the image quality is all that I could wish for and perhaps I have been lucky with my particular camera. At the time I purchased mine I was aware of potential problems but felt then (and still believe) if one is a Leica user, the benefits considerably outweigh the disadvantages.
Best wishes
Richard
Richard Marks
Rexel
Speenth said:
Hi
Im sorry to hear your M8 is out of action.
I do not agree that the forums reveal the extent of the problems. We have no idea of incidence. Also a good number of probelms appered under the "my M8 died" type of allarmist post and often the fix was simple. I do take very much on board your comments about customer service and this indeed is worrying.
Richard
Eric T
Well-known
I have had my M8 for about six weeks now. I am very pleased with the image quality. My only problem to date is that the sensor gets dirty fairly easily. So I make sure I clean the sensor before I go somewhere where I know I will be taking lots of photos.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
After a few hundred shots the cleanliness issue diminishes sharply and gets about on the same level as most DSLR's. Anyway, tha M8 is easier to clean than a DSLR sensor and cloning is a lot better than retouche-paint, -scalpel and -pencil
Ben Z
Veteran
Speenth said:
Me too. I also have a Remington-Rand manual typewriter from the late 40's that outlasted three IBM Selectrics and six PC's, but I can't hook it up to the internet
BTW I still use my Takumars on my 20D.
Speenth
Emmaiter
Richard Marks said:
Hi' Richard,
You're right of course. The Internet magnifies everything and people post tales of woe more readily than tales of joy - I'm testimony to that.
That said, over 40 years of serious photography I've rarely experienced significant problems with cameras from Pentax, Canon, Nikon and even Casio. I've owned two Leicas and both have been unreliable to the point of being unusable - as straw polls go that may not be statistically relevant, but its still painful!
When it works, my Leica M8 produces technically stunning images (I'll make no claims for my creative input) .. and there is that intangible Leica magic. That's why I shelled out lots of dosh for one. Now I just want it back please!
When the M8 is back in my mitts I'll let you know if its fixed and whether it stays so - I think I ought to report a positive. But my opinion of Leica's customer care hasn't changed - I haven't heard a peep from them in a month and there's no indication of how much longer I'll have to wait to become a Leica-liker once more.
Why can't we track the progress of repair work on line? Simple really, when every camera and lens has a unique ID. It might go something like;
10 July 06, 09:18: Received at Goods Inward, Solms.
10 July 06, 09:19: Put on shelf to get dusty while backlog is cleared.
10 January, 09:15: Taken off shelf, strictly according to waiting list.
10 January, 09:16: Dusted, using ermine towels and the breath of angels.
10 January 07, 09:30: Handed to Wolfie, the old geezer in the corner who does the sensor adjustments.
15 August 06, 17:30 Fixed to perfection (Wolfie is a bit slow, but very exacting).
17 August 06 09:30 Delivered by aged wheelbarrow to QA manager (Klaus, in the backroom with the pipe).
25 September 07, 17:00: Passed by QA (Klaus is a bit slow, but very exacting).
26 September 07, 09:00: Taken by donkey and cart across the yard in the early frosts and grey drizzle of a fine autumn day somewhere in the middle of Germany.
26 September 07, 09:10: (Its a big yard) - Handed to the postal clerk for despatch.
26 October 07, 15:10 Postal clerk finishes the copperplate entries in his log book, using his great grandfather's quill pen and black ink treasured for its capacity to render true blacks in a vaguely purple hue.
26 October 07, 15:11 precisely - DHL are kindly requested to attend the premises to collect the property of our esteemed customer (we've forgotten his name, it was all so long ago).
26 October 07, 17:00: Delivered to the customer across across three oceans and a stickleback pond - DHL have been experiencing logistics problems on this afternoon and have duly entered into a binding contract with the customer to execute the van driver for the unacceptable delays.
27 October 07, 17:00: The M8 has gone wrong again ......
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You can track repair work online..... Maybe if they notice you are tracking it, you get the less-than-two weeks service I have been experiencing Solms is fine... I do notice most of the complaints come from the USA. It seems the US customs contribute somewhat to the problem. The UK seems to be slow as well. Maybe Leica should rethink their dealership system
But a very funny post
Solms is fine... I do notice most of the complaints come from the USA. It seems the US customs contribute somewhat to the problem. The UK seems to be slow as well. Maybe Leica should rethink their dealership systemBut a very funny post
Bill58
Native Texan
Speenth said:
Speenth:
I think you forgot the long break for Oktoberfest!!!!!! Great humor posting. I'd be funnier if it wasn't a $5,000 camera.
Bill
Speenth
Emmaiter
Bill58 said:
Oh my God, Oktoberfest! I live in Austria - here you can also add every blessed Saint's day, auspicious calendar days and the biannual celebration of Confusius's confusion to the long list of excuses to go hiking in the Alps or swimming in the Danube. But still they're so irritatingly efficient they drive me mad.
I secretly rather like my image of a sleepy old bunch of Leica grumpies tucked away in some mid-European forest - if only it were true - then they'd have an excuse for keeping my camera for so long! If it was up to my adopted compatriots my camera would be back in an instant, polished, upstanding and ready for action. This is the cliche being lived out a little south of Solms - maybe the grumpies should come and take a look.
I love 'em really - I'm just frustrated and missing my M8 - I have no pictures to post and nothing else to do but work for a living - boring!
Speenth
Emmaiter
jaapv said:You can track repair work online..... Maybe if they notice you are tracking it, you get the less-than-two weeks service I have been experiencing
But a very funny post
Hi' Jaap,
You've got me excited! HOW do I track my camera's progress on line?
Do tell! I suspect a few other owners similarly pining for their pride and joy might also be keen to know.
Many thanks
Steve'
PS: I've been waiting five weeks now and no word at all. Can you just give us a hint of the magnitude of the bribe you offer to get your camera back in less than two weeks ...