German labour costs

[colinh]

Regarding lens prices I've often heard it claimed that the German labour costs are much higher than those of the Japanese. Anyone know if this is true? I have my doubts because:

a) the Japanese are not exactly poor.

b) in 2006 Germany exported goods to the value of 893.5 billion Euro. Germany exports more goods (not services) than the US or Japan.

colin

 

[antiquark]

Japan GDP per capita: $33100
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html#Econ

Germany GDP per capita: $31900
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gm.html#Econ

Not sure if those numbers have any relevance to your question.

 

[erikhaugsby]

rxmd posted this in a previous discussion:

 

[the_jim]

Hmmm...I've been wondering about this as well. There are probably a lot of factors that affect the price differences between two similar products manufactured in Germany and Japan.

One possible difference might be the amount of used vacation days. Not to generalize but, Japanese workers receive a regular amount of paid leave, but are very reluctant to use it.

Also, personal income taxes are very very very low in Japan, but I don't know if that applies to corporations.

I'm certain there are a few hundred other differences.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hmmm...I've been wondering about this as well. There are probably a lot of factors that affect the price differences between two similar products manufactured in Germany and Japan.

One possible difference might be the amount of used vacation days. Not to generalize but, Japanese workers receive a regular amount of paid leave, but are very reluctant to use it.

Also, personal income taxes are very very very low in Japan, but I don't know if that applies to corporations.

I'm certain there are a few hundred other differences.

I believe total productivity is still quite a bit higher in Japan than in Germany. It comes down to the facts that Japanese are more willing to work unpaid overtime, paid leaves in Japan are much shorter than in Germany and as you wrote, Japanese often do not use them all, whereas Germans and other Europeans typically do use all their paid leaves. On the other hand Japanese companies have typically much more extensive and lucrative bonus programs than European companies.

Still, I believe it's mostly a myth nowadays. For example Japanese cars are not signicantly cheaper than German cars (at least not in Europe, I do not know about car prices in the US). As for lens prices: Canon and Nikon (i.e. Nikkor) SLR lenses, which are made in Japan, are certainly not very cheap either. I do not think there is for example a major price difference between Nikkor AI-s lenses and the Zeiss ZF lenses, some of which are made in Germany.

 

[the_jim]

I also wonder how much the psychological value of "Made in Germany" still has on consumers. I assume that this notion of German products being inherently superior is some kind of hang over from pre-WWII, but you still see it perpetuated today.

I mean, Toyota via Lexus produces some of the world's most reliable cars (at least, I think I heard that somewhere), yet in Japan and elsewhere, many wealthy people still prefer the status of boutique European cars. I can say the same is true about cameras - some people contend that the Leica name equals ruggedness and reliability, but wouldn't it be fair to say that there have been a lot of Japanese cameras (especially SLRs) that meet or surpass that level of toughness?

On a few internet camera sites, there is a kind of bias that borders on racism or at least condecension. You can see this with threads like "Why You WOULD'T Buy Voigtlander lenses." 24 people in the pole responded that they "only want the best regardless of cost," which implies that CV lenses are not the best. That may or may not be true, because best is relative. But, when people say things like "using VC lenses on Leica cameras ... sort of waste," you get the notion that they are making that judgement based on some kind of psychological value like, the enjoyment of owning a luxury item, or the belief that having the best equipment will make you better. And, isnt that part of the point of luxury goods? It's like a physical way to elevate yourself relative to others. I can understand that way of thinking, as I have fallen victim to it from time to time.

Esentially, what I am trying to say in a very meandering way, is that I think there are certain intangible things that effect the pricing of a product based upon its country of origin. I guess that's kind of obvious, but what do you all think?

 

[pvdhaar]

Esentially, what I am trying to say in a very meandering way, is that I think there are certain intangible things that effect the pricing of a product based upon its country of origin. I guess that's kind of obvious, but what do you all think?

What you say makes sense, but there's seomthing more to it..

The days when something was made in a single country from start to finish are over. Any complex product like a car or a camera is assembled from components produced at different places.

Where final assembly takes place is only partially determined by labour cost. Infrastructure, tax incentives, availability of skilled workforce, distance to market, it all goes into the decision process.

The end result is that you have products that may be stamped 'made in Somewhere' but it doesn't really tell a thing.

That people remain so concerned about where a product is assembled is beyond me. The laws of physics are the same all over the world.

What's much more interesting to me is where a product is designed. That's where culture and philosophy enter into the mix. That's what decides how the product will be..

 

[John Camp]

To answer the question about auto costs in the US -- Japanese cars (even luxury cars) are cheaper than the equivalent German cars, and are widely recognized as "better" in quality and practicality, but not in style. The Japanese cars tend to denigrated as "bland" and the Japanese luxury cars, like Lexus, as looking like bloated small cars. That may be going away a bit with the latest designs. In the latest issues of the American consumers magazine, Consumer Reports (the special car issue), Mercedes Benz are ranked among the lowest in quality of the major brands, with serious quality control issues with both brakes and transmission. I own a CLS, and I agree; I hate the brakes, and the transmission, already fixed once under warranty, sounds like it will be going back for a second try. Another aspect in German car costs is that only certain Mercedes are imported to the US -- I'm in Vienna at the moment, and I see all kinds of MB here that we never see in the US. In the US, most MB are considered upper-rank cars, while in Europe there are MB models that are commonly used as taxis. And finally, German cars are much more expensive to maintain than Japanese cars. I have to make a right-angle turn to get into my garage, and I recented bumped the back of a heavy riding lawnmower with the left bumper of my MB. No damage to the John Deere mower, but I had a tear in the plastic skin on the bumper, and a broken piece of plastic bumper itself, about the size of a penny. Estimate to fix: $3500.

JC

 

[Thardy]

Most likely emotion and long standing perception. Kind of like stock markets.....

Though a Rollei seems a lot better made than a Bronica.

 

[Avotius]

Come now people...we all know you are buying a name....yes the lenses and cameras are great, but if the same camera said "canon" then it would be a lot cheaper...