What to look for in a Leica I Model A

Kind of interested in acquiring a 1a. What kinds of things effect the value on these and what should I look for outside acceptable functionality obviously. I’ve read many were upgraded but unsure what that consists of and if that has a negative effect on value. Any insights?

If upgraded, it would normally be to a Leica II or above and thus no longer be a IA.

Nitroplait said:

If upgraded, it would normally be to a Leica II or above and thus no longer be a IA.

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I didn't know what they meant by upgrades.

Jbennett68 said:

I didn't know what they meant by upgrades.

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It might help that they are more often called "conversions" than upgrades.

Volumes have been written about the subtle differences that can be found on a 'hockey stick' Leica. These differences, however small, affect collectability and consequently price. All sorts of things might have been changed/altered from the original, shutter release, vulcanite, engravings, baseplate catch, knobs etc etc. And then there is the issue of 'restoration'.

Not sure where to start, it might be best to find a camera for sale and then ask other's opinions.

This won't help... OstLicht Auction

Dralowid said:

Volumes have been written about the subtle differences that can be found on a 'hockey stick' Leica. These differences, however small, affect collectability and consequently price. All sorts of things might have been changed/altered from the original, shutter release, vulcanite, engravings, baseplate catch, knobs etc etc. And then there is the issue of 'restoration'.

Not sure where to start, it might be best to find a camera for sale and then ask other's opinions.

This won't help... OstLicht Auction

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Oh gosh.

If you just want one for the fun of using it I'd go for something in the 30K plus serial number, in working but not pristine condition with it's original RF (also working). I'd expect this to be in the 1000-1500 ($/€/£). The curtains tend to be pretty robust but some basic maintenance and a service are always a good idea. The disadvantage of an A is that it all has to be done at once whereas with a standardised model C you can split the work and indeed use another lens entirely.

If you just want one for the fun of shooting, it won't matter as much. I bought mine a few years back and it had just been CLA'd and recovered. I just wanted to shoot with the classic and it is perfect for me. I shoot Sunny 16 and stopped when down for daylight, have a good zone of focus that makes estimating range easy. Most of the time it is a point and shoot that way. I probably shoot mine more than many, with over 200 photos in my Flickr Leica IA album. I would have more but I shoot a lot with four other black Barnacks too.

This is the first photo I ever took with mine, April 2021 with Ilford FP4+ film.

Back Road by Neal Wellons, on Flickr

If you’re buying a shooter, as I was when got mine a year or so back, then this helps clarify some of the decisions you need to make. You won’t for example need to consider spending the extra to get something with a four digit serial, and you can target getting something that’s been film tested so you know the shutter curtains are okay, and that has a decent lens, rather than something with mint paintwork. A few usability things, if you get one of the early cameras that have a mushroom shutter release then you usually need to hold down the shutter release as you rewind the film - it’s not a big deal but it’s just a bit more awkward than later versions. I’d definitely suggest using the accessory shoe for a SBOOI viewfinder instead of a rangefinder and I’d consider getting a SVOOP/(14021?) take up spool with the sprung centre spindle. CLA options for these cameras are a bit limited as a lot of places don’t want to touch something that early so the more useable your camera is when you get it the easier it will be.

d_c said:

If you’re buying a shooter, as I was when got mine a year or so back, then this helps clarify some of the decisions you need to make. You won’t for example need to consider spending the extra to get something with a four digit serial, and you can target getting something that’s been film tested so you know the shutter curtains are okay, and that has a decent lens, rather than something with mint paintwork. A few usability things, if you get one of the early cameras that have a mushroom shutter release then you usually need to hold down the shutter release as you rewind the film - it’s not a big deal but it’s just a bit more awkward than later versions. I’d definitely suggest using the accessory shoe for a SBOOI viewfinder instead of a rangefinder and I’d consider getting a SVOOP/(14021?) take up spool with the sprung centre spindle. CLA options for these cameras are a bit limited as a lot of places don’t want to touch something that early so the more useable your camera is when you get it the easier it will be.

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Definitely want a user. Don’t want one so pristine im scared to take it out.

Now I ran accross a decent I e standard with a f2 summar that looks like a good price and I’m asking myself if I really care about the hockey stick. 🏒

Jbennett68 said:

Now I ran accross a decent I e standard with a f2 summar that looks like a good price and I’m asking myself if I really care about the hockey stick. 🏒

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The Summar is a beautiful lens if it's in good condition - mine is consistently my favourite lens over everything else I own - but bear in mind it'd be tough to get the best out of it on a Standard. A 50mm f/2 is hard to focus without a rangefinder. Not impossible, but not easy. The Elmar is much more manageable in that regard.

A Standard could be used with a Visoflex or a Focoslide if you're interested in such nonsense, though. I use a Leica Ic on the Focoslide a lot; it's a fun rig.

I have not owned a Leica 1 A but I did own a Leica 111a for several years and in many ways I liked it very much - it was the sweetest little film camera I had ever used. It had been converted post war to have the 111f flash sync and shutter collar which at least showed me that it had been loved and respected for quite a long while indeed. It was a sweet little camera and made with all the care that one would expect of Leica. But it had one failing that annoyed the crap out of me. The shutter was very clattery and loud. For some years I assumed this was a natural feature of this breed and whether for this reason or something else (I forget) eventually sold it. I later heard the sound of the shutter of a 111c (which I had not hither-too experienced) and it was very quiet and genteel and learned that with mine (maybe) the issue was the shutter brake and was correctible with a CLA. I am still not sure. As a result. I have in a way long regretted selling it so peremptorily. But am still not sure.

Jbennett68 said:

Now I ran accross a decent I e standard with a f2 summar that looks like a good price and I’m asking myself if I really care about the hockey stick. 🏒

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Weeeell, if it is black it is almost the same thing and should have less of of a 'collector' value.

Having said that they made around 60,000 I(A)s so there ought to be a sensibly priced one somewhere...maybe.

@peterm1
It's obviously impossible to be definitive without handling the camera involved. But my suspicion is that, instead of servicing your IIIa correctly, its curtains were dragging a bit and a previous owner increased the tension on their spindles. This will get a shutter functioning after a fashion, although, once the additional friction from congealed lubricants and/or old, stiffened curtains have been added to the equation, the impact of these things on the rate of curtain acceleration tends to negate the likelihood of having a 1/1000, or even perhaps a 1/500 speed, that is actually decently uniform across the gate.

I have to disclose that I have very little experience with the pre-IIIc models. I'm not familiar with their curtain braking system. But a good friend does own a lovely IIIa he acquired at a Melbourne collectors society auction a few years ago for a keen price. When I cast an eye over it for him I fully expected it to not be usable at all, however a white card slipped behind the film rails to improve contrast revealed that it was still delivering consistent looking exposure across the gate even at 1/1000 (which really surprised me). So I ran a quick film through it, and loved it. I get where you are coming from, and I would really not mind a IIIa myself, as a spectacle wearer I prefer the focusing and framing eyepieces a bit further apart than later Barnacks.

Apropos your comments about the IIIc, however yes these do employ an actual friction brake shoe for the first curtain. It's cam operated via a lever underneath the bottom of the shutter crate and is adjustable via a rotatable eccentric that bears on the actuating cam. This does an effective job of stopping the curtain quietly, and the escapement reset system will mechanically brake the second curtain via a pin on a gear meshed to the second curtain spindle.

A well adjusted IIIc–IIIg shutter should be very quiet. When I say "well adjusted", by this I mean an example which has good, soft, supple curtains that will spool easily around their pulleys and rollers so that excess resistance is not a running problem, and a mechanism that is clean and lubricated. These points are both essential for at least a couple of reasons. One: they facilitate accurate high speeds consistent across one's negatives. Two: obtaining optimum shutter efficiency will occur with a minimum of tension applied to each curtain take up shaft. A really good IIIc or later can run beautifully with as little as one and a half full turns of spring tension on the second curtain adjuster (from the braked position of the released curtain at the rewind side of the gate). A first curtain must have enough power to trip the second curtain latch (the first curtain has to all the work in a classic focal plane shutter, a second curtain only has to run itself across the gate unless an escapement speed is set in which case it will first run the gear train off). So the first curtain may need four or so turns of the adjusting worm screw. The point is an actually sorted Barnack needs a minimum of tension to run at its best. But many today will be found over tensioned.

In recent years I've possibly sent more film through my own IIIf red dial than any other camera in my collection. It works really well, and I love the results from the screw lenses. Having serviced that one years ago I know from much experience how quiet, smooth and delightful they can be. Earlier this year I did an indoor concert with it and was pretty pleased with the results. I can fire off frames rapidly simply by sliding my right index finger along the outside of the wind knob. Try this with an over tensioned shutter and you'll either strip the outer skin from your finger by roll's end or just plain won't be able to fully tension the shutter at all.

I've read some good things about the repair service at both Photo Co and Twin City in recent years. If you feel like another III series would be a welcome addition to your fleet of cameras I'd suggest chatting with either of them as to their feelings about tending to a clean prospect for you. I'll be back in Adelaide briefly in January (not my favourite time of year, there I have to say) for my mom's 80th and I do try to stop by Photo Co and the market. No doubt I will have my IIIf on me. If you would like to actually get a feel for what a correctly adjusted IIIf is like to wind and to fire, I'm happy to grab a coffee.
Cheers,
Brett

For use, I would say get a I standard. But either way, what you are looking for is a recent CLA.