111F RED dial or Black,which is best??To buy

[splaaash]

Ive always wanted a Leica 111f now ive been offered both,red dial & a black dial,which is the best??

OR which has the best build??Was the old solid system better than the ultra modern red dial ---111G?im told---design🙂


Did Leica transfer production to China with the modernization?🙁


Both are in the same good condition everything working and checked.


Which should i choose????😱

 

[ChrisLivsey]

The IIIf red dial had a "new" lightweight shutter which also had ball bearings, the post-war IIIc and the IIIf BD did not. The IIIf RD shutter and that of the later IIIg are similar or allegedly nearly identical.The bottom plate for the IIIf red dial has a metal "finger" which pushes the film up into the film take-up chamber. Most IIIf BD's (and all IIIc's) don't, but may have been swopped about over time or upgraded from c to f by Leica. The red dial IIIf shutter is allegedly smoother and quieter than the black dial IIIf.
The red dial is usually more expensive, but you do not quote a price difference, if any to assist.
Leicas made in China is an interesting thought, there are a large number of fakes about but usually crude and easily spotted although some rare models may be faked very well indeed, usually by combining real parts in a "new" build. This is unlikely for a plain vanilla iiif of either variety.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

A IIIf BD will have, at most, a 'half-race' ball-bearing shutter. Certainly if it was converted from a early post-war IIIc, as I recall.

The IIIf RD will be a 'full-race' with ball-bearing shutter, advance and rewind knob.

 

[ruby.monkey]

Take whichever of the two is in the best condition.

 

[NY_Dan]

Buy both, use for a month, and sell the one you like less.

 

[splaaash]

Bought the red dial

The black dial was far better cosmetically looked new,the red dial looked looks used,both are garenteed by Leica for 6 months and the red dial was slightly less expensive as its not what a someone collecting Leicas would buy,

SO will i have to oil the ball bearings from time to time???

Ill also need to buy a lens for it,but what?It was built in 1952, i have an Elma f3.5 for my 11C what should i use on a 111F ? perhaps a 35mm???

 

[Dez]

The bearings and bushings need to be lubricated every thirty years or so. All the LTM lenses are just fine on all the LTM cameras; getting the camera and lens with the same year is great for purists, but there's basically no point to it.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[HuubL]

Bought the red dial

The black dial was far better cosmetically looked new,the red dial looked looks used,both are garenteed by Leica for 6 months and the red dial was slightly less expensive as its not what a someone collecting Leicas would buy,

SO will i have to oil the ball bearings from time to time???

Ill also need to buy a lens for it,but what?It was built in 1952, i have an Elma f3.5 for my 11C what should i use on a 111F ? perhaps a 35mm???

If you already own a 50 Elmar, then use it on the IIIf. A 35mm lens would be a good addition, a contemporary 3.5 or 2.8 Summaron would be tops, but you would like to have an extra finder and the better ones (Leica's SBLOO, or a Voigtlander) would add significantly to the cost.

 

[Sumolux]

Questionable 'bearings' story

Questionable 'bearings' story

The IIIf red dial had a "new" lightweight shutter which also had ball bearings, the post-war IIIc and the IIIf BD did not. The IIIf RD shutter and that of the later IIIg are similar or allegedly nearly identical.The bottom plate for the IIIf red dial has a metal "finger" which pushes the film up into the film take-up chamber. Most IIIf BD's (and all IIIc's) don't, but may have been swopped about over time or upgraded from c to f by Leica. The red dial IIIf shutter is allegedly smoother and quieter than the black dial IIIf.
The red dial is usually more expensive, but you do not quote a price difference, if any to assist.
Leicas made in China is an interesting thought, there are a large number of fakes about but usually crude and easily spotted although some rare models may be faked very well indeed, usually by combining real parts in a "new" build. This is unlikely for a plain vanilla iiif of either variety.

There seem to be two threads on the same subject listed...Just saw this 2nd version.

I don't want to play the expert, as I am not, but I have a suspicion that this ball bearing story has been copy/pasted all over the Internet and might be taken as verbatim today because of that.

If I recall correctly the man who CLA'd my IIIf BD, (Peter from Luton) spent years assembling these IIIf's. He told me there were no (extra) bearings added to the IIIf RD versions; only the shutter setup was made lighter.

I could be wrong on this, and I have NEVER seen proper pictures showing these points clearly to prove it either way, but I tend to believe the workmen who have these cameras open every day in front of them to any collector's book or hearsay. It would fun to hear from other repairers on this point.
Cheers
Sumolux