15mm f4.5 closefocus q. (+RF food photog)

[wansmith]

Hi,

I am interested in the 15mm lens and a bessa R3M. I am debating whether get the 15mm M mount or screw mount+adapter. Among all the other purposes of an ultrawide, I would like to use this lens also at restaurants to shoot food which is in front of me, and i anticipate i will be shooting wide open at f4.5 due to lighting. Cost and other issues such as RF coupling and filter mount aside, I am particularly concerned with the close focus stat - 0.5m for M vs 0.3m for Screw. Focused at thier closest distance, does the screw mount lens have an actual advantage over the M mount when shooting close subjects?

also, as an aside, I would know what the slowest shutter speed people have been able to shoot at handheld with this lens while shooting a close subject (0.3-0.6m away).

If anyone else has any experiences re RF food photography whilst at the table (ie without having to stand up and move back slightly) please chime in .

Cheers all

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

the advantage are the obvious 20cm and the fact that it produces an a little narrower DOF at 0,3m than 0,5m of course. if you're not a big shaker you should be able to easily handhold 1/4 or even 1/2 of a second with it.

 

[Tom A]

What you want to shoot - you need the rangefinder coupling. Yes, you loose the 20 cm - but you have the pin-point focus with the M-Heliar. When you get close - it is not easy to calculate 25-30-35 cm and the 5cm would be critical at f4.5.
As for shutterspeed - the "rule of thumb" is focal length as the slowest hand holdable speed - in this case 1/15. As with all rules - they are made to be broken. Depending on your level of "internal" stability and recent coffee intake - you can usually hand-hold a wide at least one stop lower than the rule. I am blessed with low blood pressure and "norma;" pulse rate and I have often shot the 15 at 1/2 sec and gotten away with it. However, in cases like that I usually do more than one shot - just in case.

 

[wansmith]

Many thanks for the replies, they are very helpful. I had not previously considered the issue that the DOF would still be narrow at such close distances, despite the wide angle and relatively small aperture. I guess then i'll need the RF coupling, but since the R3M's closest focusing distance is 0.7m I think this is too far to be practical for my stated purpose. Is there anyway around this, or should I stick with my slr for this purpose?

Also, does anyone have 15mm photos shot on 35mm film format at the closes focusing distance and max aperture so I can see how narrow the DOF is?

Cheers

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

I don't know if I'm especially gifted with guessing distances (I actually do not think so) but I find it rather feasible, even at 20-70cm. if you're not sure take a second one. prepared food usually doesn't run away that fast.

I might have some very close ones but most probably not at f4.5, I'm gonna check the "archives" later.

cheerio

 

[FA Limited]

why would you purposely do food photography w/ an RF ?

 

[wansmith]

Thanks for your reply SimonSawSunlight. I think I might go with the screw mount and get used to judging distance. Perhaps I can carry around a string with 30-50cm distance marks and use it as a guide when I am starting out! I feel as though I may regret it if I do not buy the screw mount since stocks will eventually diminish, and I will always be able to trade up to the M mount later.

In response to your question, FA Limited: I want to travel light, and for all purposes except food photography i would much prefer taking a RF rather than an SLR if I had to choose 1 camera. Food photography is one purpose, but by no means the dominant purpose for which I carry a camera, and I would like to know if I could take serviceable food photos with an RF.
Cheers

 

[Al Kaplan]

I've been shooting the 15/4.5 since shortly after it first became available. You don't need a knotted string for its focusing range. It seems to have more depth of field than the scale on the lens tells you. Most of the time, even at f/4.5, I just leave it set an one meter. If my main subject is a lot closer I'll set the focus at 0.5 meters. You still won't be able to see "how narrow" the depth of field is but far away buildings might start looking a bit soft. You could get some interesting perspectives shooting food with the fifteen. Whether the editor or art director would like them is something that you'd have to find out for yourself.

Yes, you can get some sharp hand held exposures at very long shutter speeds. I find 1/8 and 1/4 no problem and if I lean against a wall or brace my elbows on a table I get a decent percentage at a full second. In general you can get serviceable photos with a rangefinder.

 

[wansmith]

Thanks Al Kaplan for your reply. Not looking for clinical results here, don't mind interesting perspectives or distortion etc.

okay i think i am set on the screwmount for the following reasons:
* 20cm closer closest focus distance (RF coupling doesn't matter because i'm looking at shooting subjects closer than 0.7m, and at 0.7m there should be ample DOF to scalefocus fairly accurately with a bit of practice, though I may actually start with a bit of string to get confidence up)
* it is likely to be discontinued soon

once I get the lens and start taking these food photos i'll be sure to share them on the sticky thread.

thanks everyone

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

I assure you, there clearly is DOF and OOF areas in close focus shots. these testshots were taken with 400asa in bright daylight, that means far from wide open. focus set between 30 and 40cm afair.

and I just found this, wide open but not at closest focus distance:

this is a narrow kitchen, I imagine a vaster background like a restaurant to be a lot more visibly OOF.

 

[wansmith]

Hi SimonSawSunlight, yes I agree with you. I have been recently playing around with the nikon D700 (full frame) and the 14-24mm f2.8 at closest focus and the background is visibly OOF, however at f4.5, getting a plate within the DOF it was definitely possible from about 40cm away, despite the backround restaurant being OOF. This is sufficient for my purposes because I don't mind if the background is OOF, just need to catch all of the plate/subject.
Cheers

 

[uhligfd]

And if you and etiquette allows, place your two elbows firmly on the table and shoot happily at 1/2 sec. And if that is too shaky, turn your chair around (if allowed) and rest your armpits on the back of the chair for even more stable shots. This should be a cinch, even at f = 15mm and f/4.5. Good luck!

Or get a little Leica tabletop tripod ... 200 $, though ...

 

[35mmdelux]

This one making me thirsty.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi wansmith,

You should really get the rangefinder coupled M mount version.

Do yourself a favor and don't miss that 52mm filter thread...

Regards,

Juan

 

[wansmith]

uhligfd, cheers for the tip, sure to come in handy at some stage. Juan Valdenebro, i would definitely love to get the M mount version for that exact reason but if it means saving $200+ (including the viewfinder) I think i'll persevere with the screwmount for the time being to test out the lens and see if it is actually one taht I will use often.
Thanks all

 

[__hh]

dofmaster.com may help in deciding...

At f4.5 and focusing distance of 50cm, the zone of "acceptable" focus would be 38.7 and 70.5 cm (total DOF of 31.7 cm)

For 30cm, these figures change to

Near limit 25.6 cm
Far limit 36.2 cm
Total 10.5 cm

If you think you can tell the difference between 25cm and 35cm (and assuming that your subject is small enough to fit into the zone of focus), I would go for the cheaper version of the 2 and save $200.

 

[mr_phillip]

Far as I can see, the M-mount CV15mm is mainly aimed at folks using cropped digital sensors, where the coupled focusing and (on an M8 at least) easy filter mount come into their own. When it first came out I was initially attracted to it just because I have a stack of really nice B+W 52mm filters left over from my Nikkor days, but the LTM version fits more bodies and focuses closer...

I've owned my screw version since it came out (it even says Cosina on the body instead of Voigtländer), and often use it at the minimum focus setting. To be honest I normally set the focus either at infinity or at the minumum, and rarely bother with anything in between - depth of field covers most sins in that regard.

The following shot was taken at f4.5, minimum focus (shutter speed was either 1/4 or 1/8). Sorry there's no food in shot - I was hungry, what can I say 🙂

 

[wansmith]

thanks for the replys, and cheers for the sample photo, that is a perfect example of the type of photo i wish to take - capturing the food and the people and a bit of the background, without fussing about distortion etc. The dofmaster calculation was also particularly illuminating, i think 10 cm is enough to grab most dishes however i'll probably have to practice judging 30cm, something that i am confident i will get the hang of. anyway most of the time i'll probably have it focused a little bit longer that 30 cm.
Can i just say what an excellent forum this has proven to be (this is my first thread).

Regards

 

[Tim Gray]

What you want to shoot - you need the rangefinder coupling. Yes, you loose the 20 cm - but you have the pin-point focus with the M-Heliar. When you get close - it is not easy to calculate 25-30-35 cm and the 5cm would be critical at f4.5.

Is the M Heliar RF coupled below .7m?

I say go with the screw mount - it's cheaper and smaller. Below .7m it's all probably a guessing game anyway, so the RF coupling doesn't matter. I've taken plenty of shots indoors with this lens at close distances and gotten away with it. Especially if you're going to be doing similar types of shots and get a feel for, say, .5m away from your dish and always shoot from that distance.

 

[wansmith]

Just ordered the screw mount version. Thanks for your help everyone. I'll post my restaurant pics in the relevant thread.